Courtesy and Philosophy of SPOILER warnings

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I think the SPOILER WARNING is one of the sillier things to spring up due to the internet. Because there is such a wide variety of folks surfing, whenever the topic of movies invariably arises - even on boards not specifically devoted to discussing films, and partially because of the immediacy of the internet, people are in risk of having major plot-points of brand new movies revealed, sometimes even before the film is released. Hey, that ain't cool. Unless you're looking for it, one shouldn't accidentally be exposed to such "spoilers" (especially as even the biggest films usually have different, staggered release dates all over the world). I'm all for that. That just seems like common courtesy to me.

BUT, I also think there is a reasonable time-limit on such protection. I say after about a year or so after a film has been released, all discussion about it - including plot specifics, is fair game. The year cushion gives anybody who was really and truly interested in it ample time to catch it, if not in the theaters or even video then perhaps on cable TV. To still be tip-toeing around a movie like, say, Fight Club at this point is retarded to me. I'm sure there are lots of people who haven't seen Fight Club yet, for whatever reasons, but by now the rest of the world - even the internet world, can't be asked to walk around protecting its 'secrets' as if anybody who hasn't seen it themselves yet is a five-year-old who believes in Santa. If on movie boards in particular you can't speak pretty freely about movies, then what's the frippin' point?

This is especially stupid when a movie turns into fodder for pop culture. If "The Simpsons" and "Saturday Night Live" and Mad Magazine and whatever else are quickly using plot points from a film for parody, guess what: the bubble burst on your supposed right to have it remain secret real fast.

Where this gets totally silly for me is when we're not even talking about a movie that is two or three or five years old, but something that is twenty or thirty or sixty years old. If you don't know yet that Rosebud was Chuck Foster Kane's boyhood sled, then that's just your own problem. Do you apply this same overprotection to literature? If you overhear two people talking about a book you haven't read, like The Adventures of Tom Sawyer or Catcher in the Rye, do you plug up your ears running from the room, berating those people for "spoiling" it for you? If you haven't read them yet, the rest of the world shouldn't be expected to bend over backwards to make sure your experience with them is virgin.

The same very much applies to movies. Just because you might not have seen a movie does not mean the rest of the world is prohibited from talking about it - unless, as I said above, it is truly brand-new. There should be no spoiler warning automatically attached to flicks like Psycho, Chinatown, The Wizard of Oz or any other movie, for that matter. Now, if you have explicitly started a thread that asks for spoiler-free opinions or is giving a more general review, that's one thing. But if you're on a board that talks about movies and you wander into a thread about any "older" movie you haven't yet seen, it's implicitly an enter at your own risk proposition, yeah? Because if there are board members in there who are actually discussing it, and they're (hopefully) going into more detail than 'it sucked/it rocked', of course they are going to be revealing specifics.

And importantly, I think having plot details - even a twist - revealed before you see a movie does not automatically detract from the viewing experience, anyway. A great movie is a great movie. Knowing a key plot point of a great movie before you see it makes it no less great. But, if you feel it really does detract, then it's really your responsibility to be careful, not everybody else on the wide, wide world of the internet who has actually seen the movie in question. That doesn't mean I'd be callous or cavalier about revealing plot points and specifics randomly, but if you go into a thread that seems like perhaps there is going to be involved discussion about specifics, then simply don't venture in there. That seems pretty simple to me.


It all seems pretty simple, and like common sense. Expecting the entire world to keep The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Citizen Kane State secrets on the off-chance that you might have it spoiled for you is counterintuitive and silly.

I think, anyway.


<END RANT NOW>
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Rosebud is a sled? ARGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! Spoilers please shhehshh.


Seriously though I agree for the most part.

Star Wars Teaser Trailer (nothing given away here, click away Merrill, click away )
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I disagree. Your points are perfectly valid, but it's just courtesy and takes little extra effort. As far as I can recall I haven't had cause to use spoiler tags whilst I've been here, and I don't see a great many posts that do. It's not really costing anyone any time to add them once every hundred-or-so posts.

I'd suggest that adding the spoilers button to the 'Quick Reply' bar might be a good idea, however, for anyone who does feel it's irritating to have to 'Go Advanced' whenever spoilers are called for.



Standing in the Sunlight, Laughing
I disagree.

It's not like you can't discuss films and their twists and turns online, you just apply a mask on some parts of what you're saying. This is difficult? You're emaciated from the extra caloric expenditure? Too exhausted to drag your bones to bed after applying all those vbb tags? I doubt it.

Film is generally made for entertainment, and as such people see it when they can. Different people have different priorities on seeing films and different rates of seeing them. The small courtesy of applying a spoiler tag allows more people to be involved in film discussion, which broadens the discussion experience on all films because people don't have to avoid those they've not seen. And then there's the various worldwide release dates to consider, when access to a film site is immediate for everyone from here to Croatia.

To sum up: spoiler tags are awesome. Everybody wins.
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I'm torn here. Both sides have a point. Clearly, everyone agrees that spoiler warnings in some form are necessary for newer releases. Things get hazy a year or two after a film's release, though.

As others have said, it doesn't take much effort. At the same time, I have to agree that MoFos (and, indeed, anyone else browsing the site) probably don't have much right to expect them. So overall, I'd put it in the same league as, I don't know, being extra polite to a stranger: no one should necessarily expect it of you, but it's ideal and not too hard to do.

Anyone else have any other thoughts? Should we draw up some sort of quick list of Spoiler-related guidelines and throw it in at the top of the "Spoiler Tags" thread?



The Adventure Starts Here!
Frankly, I too am torn here. There could be plenty of reasons I don't see a particular movie for well over a year. I didn't see The Sixth Sense, for instance, for years after it came out, and somehow by the grace of God I ended up seeing it on cable without knowing the ending ahead of time. I'm sure that made my experience better.

Yet, around here, it gets annoying when you type really fast and want to really discuss a movie at length to have to type in (or click on) those spoiler tags any time you want to discuss a specific important plot point. Shouldn't there just be a way to label the subject line of the whole thread with that cautionary "SPOILERS for The Sixth Sense inside" or something like that? THEN, once you go into that thread, you're prepared for that possibility, and those posting in that thread can type away, Merrill, type away, and not have to keep encasing half of every post in little white boxes.

It really interrupts my train of thought to have to worry about all that formatting and going back when I'm done to pick and choose stuff to put in tags is dumb if you're in a thread specifically dedicated to discussing a movie (which means, usually, PLOT POINTS).

Having something very easy in the Quick Reply box would be helpful, I agree. But I also think there is a place for one big huge "spoiler-tagged" thread for any movie we want to discuss openly. Wouldn't that, Holden, address your concerns: having the warning in the subject title but then a free-for-all inside the actual thread?



The People's Republic of Clogher
I rarely use spoiler tags in reviews and the same goes for the MoFos who's opinions I like to read - You don't have to give away plotlines to write a good review so, as HP says, it's a common sense issue.

I can see their usefulness in more general areas of the site like the Movie Tab but if there's a thread on a specific film then avoid it if you don't want to know what happens.

That's what I do...

EDIT - What's a spolier anyway? I fear my post is about something totally unrelated.
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Holden Pike....smawt feller...you hit the nail right on the head...

ps - north by northwest...$5.83 at Walmart....booyah!
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Originally Posted by Tacitus
EDIT - What's a spolier anyway? I fear my post is about something totally unrelated.
I think it's one of those things that chavs like to stick on their cars.



It should be at the option of the person posting the spoiler as to whther or not they warn others. Like the courtesy to allow others in front of you in the supermarket queue. Except in the case of new movies (Less than 12 months) which should be an expected courtesy. Like the courtesy of handing in lost property.

The real issue is not the movies or their spoilers but the courtesy and the ettiquette.

What if I worked for a magazine and wrote an article about holidaying in Europe. Should I Issue a spoiler warning for those who want to find out about Europe for themselves? of course not.
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Originally Posted by Sacorian
What if I worked for a magazine and wrote an article about holidaying in Europe. Should I Issue a spoiler warning for those who want to find out about Europe for themselves? of course not.
That's a pretty poor analogy really.



There are those who call me...Tim.
Depends on the thread. If someone gives away major plot points in the "What was the last movie you saw at the theaters?" thread, for example, without using the SPOILER tags, then I consider that to be pretty damn rude.

However, if it's a thread dedicated to discussing a particular film, especially if, as Holden says, it's several years old, and you haven't seen said film, then what the hell are you doing reading it? If someone mentions something and "spoils" the film for you, it's your own silly fault for wandering in there without considering the risks. If that's not a concern for you, then go right ahead, but if it is... well, think before you click.

But on the other hand, spoiler tags really aren't that hard to use for an experienced forum member to use, and typing the word SPOILER in a thread title or at the top of a post takes even less effort.

Also, if someone posts a review with spoilers in it and doesn't use SPOILER tags or give any advanced warning, then yeah, accidents will happen, and again I find that extremely rude.

Just trying to see both sides of the argument.
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I guess it was a poor analogy but the rest of my point still stands.



WE COME IN PEACE AND WITH GOODWIL
Spoiler Tags are stupid and not needed 'WARNING! THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN PLOT POINTS" - Hello! When I was a young kid and you did not want to know what was happening you simply covered your ears (today with the internet -eyes) and walked away. I say if you are going to sit here and discuss themes and plots etc then your going to have to expect that from time to time you are going to have one of those movies that you have not seen ruined(?) for you. But that should not distract you from watching the movie; if anything it should elevate you to a better understanding of that movie. I mean - isn't that why we read movie reviews in the first place? So that we may get an idea on what we are about to see. I read movie reviews and peoples threads about movies all the time regardless of wether they spoil the plot. I think your are forgetting the one thing that makes movies so cool - the entertainment factor!
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there's a frog in my snake oil
I'm a bit of a git on this subject, as I tend to watch mainstream stuff for free on the box - and that can mean catching up long after the DVD release date (which seems to be gnawing on the tail of the cinematic releases these days anyway).

Gotta agree with everyone that's said it depends on the thread tho. I gots me a bit annoyed with yon Swedish Chef about his Shoutbox shenanigans. And that's why - i have a foolish and curmudgeonly expectation that people'll keep things vague in places like that and the Tabs. Bigger blown discussions - fair play.

It doesn't help that i fancy myself as a 'twist detective', and so get put out of joint by even minor hints at the times, places or story-traces that reveal how the plot unwinds. I agree with Holds that it doesn't necessarily ruin a quality pic. (But it can ruin my story-second-guessing game in films where there's less around to engage your mind ). Still, that's just my thing.
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I'm not sure it's fair to say folks shouldn't "wander into" threads that discuss a particular movie. If it's a *review*-type thread in any sense, they could be wandering in to get info on how other people liked the movie in order to make a decision about seeing the movie themselves.

That seems reasonable to me. Honestly, my issue is mostly about using spoiler tags in individual posts (which is still a pain) rather than simply having two types of discussion threads: one for review-type posts and one for deeper discussions that will obviously include plot points and possibly even the ending.

But I'm sure folks have gone into review threads and posted plot points that perhaps shouldn't be there.... That's the part that would irk me if I hadn't seen the movie yet but still wanted to read a good review first.

Golg, yeah, those shoutbox posts were not really fair or nice. I didn't know that about Casino Royale (still haven't seen it in its entirety), so now I know that bit of info. It will definitely change my experience watching the film if/when I ever watch it completely.



there's a frog in my snake oil
Originally Posted by Austruck
If it's a *review*-type thread in any sense, they could be wandering in to get info on how other people liked the movie in order to make a decision about seeing the movie themselves.

That seems reasonable to me.
Def agree with that

Originally Posted by Aus
Honestly, my issue is mostly about using spoiler tags in individual posts (which is still a pain) rather than simply having two types of discussion threads: one for review-type posts and one for deeper discussions that will obviously include plot points and possibly even the ending.
I think that kinda happens already. Nigh on everyone here keeps the spoiler's neatly zipped up while undressing a flick for our delectation (sorry, that metaphor started out messed up and got worse ).

I tread kind of wary after that, in case of to-and-fro - but you can normally dodge it. And other 'discussion' threads are normally pretty marked out by their title/forum-section etc.

Originally Posted by Aus
Golg, yeah, those shoutbox posts were not really fair or nice. I didn't know that about Casino Royale (still haven't seen it in its entirety), so now I know that bit of info. It will definitely change my experience watching the film if/when I ever watch it completely.
I'm not toooo bothered about that one, but purely coz i'm not massively psyched to see the film (and at least everyone's affirmed it makes very little difference to events). Would have been a pain if it was something I was panting to see in the raw all unadorned tho. (Apologies )