Question about Kingdom of Heaven (spoilers)

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Registered User
Someone please explain this scene to me. As I understand, Balian is wanted for the murder of his brother. The posse fights Godrey's ban and apparently, Godrey's band successfully fends them off.

Then this guy offers himself up for ... ransom? and they kill him instead. Why? Is this the custom at the time for the winner to kill one more?

"I am accorded the privilege of ransom."


"This is true."
Is this the figure of speech at that time, meaning, agreed or acknowledged?



Hi,

I wanted to address your question, regarding the dialogue first.


Basically
1. The Guy was Arrogant. He doesn't even take his helmet off, when addressing Godfrey.

2. Being left alive meant, his life was worth more to them, than God, Godfrey's men or son.

The most logical reason(s)

3. They didn't have time, to send an emissary, all the way to some Duke, while in the middle of a pretext to Jerusalem.


4. Don't F**K with Liam Neeson, and his kids. Enough said.

5. Ridley Scott plays with this concept of Eye for and Eye, in his earlier work (Gladiator).



In-depth Information

The movie takes place during the Crusades, and in that time, the act of holding a person hostage or "Ransom" had deep, financial and religious connotations to its meaning. The etymology behind the word serves, as a significant purpose, behind the laws of, Man, the New and Old Testament.


The derivatives in the Old Testament, mean, "protection, or to cover". This may preside, within the plot device of the film itself, for it begs to ask; Who is worthy of living or surviving the skirmish? As in the evils of men, shall be extorted by the justifiable laws of the good. Well who is good and who is evil?

If we are referring to the notion that, "all men are sinners" (as in the New Testament), therefore, all are equal, despite affiliations to royalty or nobility. Than the life of another or [say this] "Guy", is worth taking place of Godfrey's, slain men.

In stark contrast to its origins, the word is much more detailed and expressive, within the New Testament, where as its face-value contributes, "to a significant price, or something redeemable". Ultimately, it is to terminate a fine, through means of payment, within equivalency. In this case, a life for a life.

Since this movie revolves around the idea of reconciliation, within the context of Christianity, and its early foundations. It is clear, that asking to be held captive, is like saying, "my life was worth more, than those who died". In arrogantly doing so, he gets a pick-axe to the back of his head, in spite of his nobility. David Thewlis (resident bad ass), is only obliging him.


Answer


A. This scene makes claim, that no man can hold another hostage, because it implies, that his life is worthy that of Godliness. No man or woman, is expendable.


B. He doesn't necessarily mean, "agreed", or "acknowledge", but more so, "I deserve the privilege of being captured."


C. Godfrey takes his words, in a different context, probably due to his callaber as a warrior, and his fights with Saladin.


D. By killing two of Godfrey's men, he needed to redeem the death, in place of another.


The Movie



I would suppose you have the directors-cut, because in the theatrical release, this scene is shortened a bit. In the movie he murders a priest, that happens to be his half-brother. This was mentioned, in order to tighten up the historical accuracy...


The movie plays with this "theory" of ransom. When they kidnap Saladin's sister, and the Muslims request to have the body back, for a proper burial.




Abridged Version of: The History of Ransom in the Middle Ages

It was a very popular custom, to do so in the Middle Ages, for financial and political reasons. It put a marginal value on clans, or families and some might say, that its processes, gave birth to coats of arms, or heraldic crests. These symbols often made distinctions among knights. For example, at one time, Richard the 1st, was kidnapped, in order to extort funds from the throne. This ransom lead to necessary funds in building the cities, that would later become, South Vienna. Kings were Christened, by "God" as the heirs to the lands they controlled. If under that consideration, than that mans life, was a valued as Gods.

In relation to the film, it's a testament to Godfrey's caliber as a Knight, because he realizes that no man bears, such embellishments, or privileges.


Keep in Mind, that this is a loosely based story, done by the same guy, that did Gladiator.

The Nobleman, Balian de Ilbelin, in historical terms never killed his own brother, Baldwin. Though there were disputes within the family. It was amongst who supported the right, successor to the throne. They had an elder brother, that died before his time. With that in mind, bear that Orlando Blooms character is almost a combination of the two.

Hope that Helps!



A system of cells interlinked
Thanks for the info, and welcome to MoFo.

I think the Director's Cut is usually the version people are discussing around here, as we consider it the definitive edition due to Ridley stating he dislikes and does not support the theatrical version.
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Originally Posted by christine
enjoyed reading your answer InGaffa
Credits to HIST 112. Can't believe I'm saying that. Thanks ! aha



Originally Posted by Sedai
Thanks for the info, and welcome to MoFo.
Thanks for the warm welcome!


Originally Posted by Sedai
... due to Ridley stating he dislikes and does not support the theatrical version.

I really can't blame him for that. Im still trippin' over the two different endings in Brazil.



Registered User
...It is clear, that asking to be held captive, is like saying, "my life was worth more, than those who died". In arrogantly doing so, he gets a pick-axe to the back of his head, in spite of his nobility....
Excellent analysis. After reading it, I am reminded of Balian's own battle at the desert, after the shipwreck over the horse.

In that situation, the servant lying on the ground says "finish this" but in contrast to what his father did, Balian spares the servant's life instead. I suppose it is also a perception of arrogance and humility. The servant of lower rank expected to die. The son of Roger de Cormiere expected to live.

Back to the skirmish in the forest. With all these dead bodies lying around, how would one distinguish one death as being a murder and another not as a murder? I might have missed something but did this guy (son of Roger de Cormiere) return to Godfrey or did he just get up from where he was at the battle? He could have just left the whole scene.



You ready? You look ready.
Yeah, In Gaffa nailed it.
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"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza



Originally Posted by John McClane
Yeah, In Gaffa nailed it.
Originally Posted by rauldc14
I agree with In Gaffa on this one.

Thanks!


Originally Posted by tostig
Back to the skirmish in the forest. With all these dead bodies lying around, how would one distinguish one death as being a murder and another not as a murder?
In a philosophical sense, all deaths could be considered as such, though the film takes place, during a time where loss of life, is almost an every day occurrence.


Originally Posted by tostig
...I suppose it is also a perception of arrogance and humility...
Bingo . I think this was also done, to bring about the clash of cultures early on in the movie. Over-all, good watch.