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You don’t think the end was presented as a tragedy?
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Without you saying it, what I am sensing is that you were against him. Therefore anything less by anybody else might be on his side in your eyes.
I was making a conscious effort to see your and Allby”s point of view though, because of how strongly you guys fellt about the film.
I just don’t see your guys reading. I very much think he’s in love and, the worst part for me, I think the director wants you to sympathize with that.
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I think this could be the case, I think we are all like that to some degree.
I was making a conscious effort to see your and Allby”s point of view though, because of how strongly you guys fellt about the film.
I just don’t see your guys reading. I very much think he’s in love and, the worst part for me, I think the director wants you to sympathize with that.
I was making a conscious effort to see your and Allby”s point of view though, because of how strongly you guys fellt about the film.
I just don’t see your guys reading. I very much think he’s in love and, the worst part for me, I think the director wants you to sympathize with that.
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I think it's shown as a very unusual relationship that is supposed to spark debate. If I saw it in real life, alarm bells would be ringing. What I see in the movie is something more innocent as strange as it seems.
Just don’t think that’s what the director was going for here. Gotta keep it real Cricket.
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Sundays and Cybèle
(Serge Bourguignon 1962)
Such a beautifully filmed movie and such a moving and yet sometimes uncomfortable story. And I loved the film for that!
So many Hollywood films tell you what to think & feel...and in doing so dumb down the narrative so that there's no room left for our own interpretation...Sundays and Cybele presents the narrative as it is and allows us to make of it what we will.
I found the film to be dynamic in that it presented so many facets of the relationship between the amnesic Pierre and the orphan girl Cybele. Was their love pure and about two wounded souls trying to heal their fractured worlds?...Was their love misunderstood? Or had Pierre & Cybele built a fantasy world for themselves that was doomed to crumble around them? I don't know...and that's why I love the film as it didn't spoonfeed me the answers. Instead it allowed me to contemplate what was unfolding on the screen. I respect that.
The film did make me uncomfortable at times especially in the last scene where Pierre & Cybele share Christmas together. It's touching in that it's her first real Christmas and Pierre wants to make it special. It's also uncomfortable as they sip champagne and seem like they're lovers. But is the evil actually in our own minds? Pierre never touches Cybele in an inappropriate way, he never kisses her on the lips, there's nothing physical between them implied.
As a side note I was intrigued by the spiritual mystic references through out the film and the idea that Pierre & Cybele were going to escape this world for a pool of water beyond their painful existences.
So many Hollywood films tell you what to think & feel...and in doing so dumb down the narrative so that there's no room left for our own interpretation...Sundays and Cybele presents the narrative as it is and allows us to make of it what we will.
I found the film to be dynamic in that it presented so many facets of the relationship between the amnesic Pierre and the orphan girl Cybele. Was their love pure and about two wounded souls trying to heal their fractured worlds?...Was their love misunderstood? Or had Pierre & Cybele built a fantasy world for themselves that was doomed to crumble around them? I don't know...and that's why I love the film as it didn't spoonfeed me the answers. Instead it allowed me to contemplate what was unfolding on the screen. I respect that.
The film did make me uncomfortable at times especially in the last scene where Pierre & Cybele share Christmas together. It's touching in that it's her first real Christmas and Pierre wants to make it special. It's also uncomfortable as they sip champagne and seem like they're lovers. But is the evil actually in our own minds? Pierre never touches Cybele in an inappropriate way, he never kisses her on the lips, there's nothing physical between them implied.
As a side note I was intrigued by the spiritual mystic references through out the film and the idea that Pierre & Cybele were going to escape this world for a pool of water beyond their painful existences.
Last edited by Citizen Rules; 12-08-22 at 10:48 PM.
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WARNING: spoilers below
So he gets in a school yard fight with a twelve year old over Cybele. Smacks his girlfriend who try’s to kiss him while he is daydreaming about Cybele. Drinks with her in intimate settings. Allows her to taste his blood and she says you are a part of me now. You guys definitely have a different definition of drawing your own conclusions than I do.
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WARNING: spoilers below
So he gets in a school yard fight with a twelve year old over Cybele. Smacks his girlfriend who try’s to kiss him while he is daydreaming about Cybele. Drinks with her in intimate settings. Allows her to taste his blood and she says you are a part of me now. You guys definitely have a different definition of drawing your own conclusions than I do.
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You don't think it's supposed to make the viewer feel confused? It's definitely presented as an abnormal relationship. I'm not sure what you think the directors intent was if not that.
Again, that’s not a deal breaker for me if he wasn’t portrayed as the hero. I think he is.
I just didn’t find the grey areas in the movie you guys did. I think it’s plain.
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I hope you guys don't mind if I reply to some past posts regarding Sundays and Cybele. *spoilers*
I'd say it was split. Some adults thought he was acting as if he was married to the girl. Other adults were outraged at his behavior...While the artist seemed to outright approve. His girlfriend Madeline seemed to come to the conclusion he was mentally ill and his relationship was a way of making up for the girl he had accidentally killed in Indochina.
From the film's point of view the ending was inevitable as the relationship was growing stranger and Pierre was becoming more detached and violent. I think the film was saying that he was a mental ill person who was tragically killed in a misunderstanding by the police. I also think the tragic ending was a needed release for Pierre.
Yeah me too, in real life if I saw this relationship I'd be calling the authorities and reporting it for the childs' safety.
I view relationships in film from a different viewpoint than real life. Film is make believe so stuff can happen for metaphorical reasons. The film is 60 years old so it needs to be viewed in that time frame and not from the 21st century mindset.
I think the way the other adults in the movie act put us on Pierre”s side.
You don’t think the end was presented as a tragedy?
I think it's shown as a very unusual relationship that is supposed to spark debate. If I saw it in real life, alarm bells would be ringing. What I see in the movie is something more innocent as strange as it seems.
I view relationships in film from a different viewpoint than real life. Film is make believe so stuff can happen for metaphorical reasons. The film is 60 years old so it needs to be viewed in that time frame and not from the 21st century mindset.
Last edited by Citizen Rules; 05-26-21 at 06:40 PM.
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I view relationships in film from a different viewpoint than real life. Film is make believe so stuff can happen for metaphorical reasons. The film is 60 years old so it needs to be viewed in that time frame and not from the 21st century mindset.
Hard disagree with looking at it through 60 year old lens when you are talking about pedophilia. Don’t think that was okay 60 years ago. Is that what you mean?
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Hard agree about viewing movie relationships different than real life if they are presented that way to the audience. I really disagree that it is here. That’s because the way the other adults are portrayed. Except for the girlfriend they are all portrayed as Pierre”s antagonists. I think in the end the girlfriend is supposed to be a stand in for us. She wants Pierre to be left alone to be with Cybele.
Hard disagree with looking at it through 60 year old lens when you are talking about pedophilia. Don’t think that was okay 60 years ago. Is that what you mean?
Hard disagree with looking at it through 60 year old lens when you are talking about pedophilia. Don’t think that was okay 60 years ago. Is that what you mean?
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I don't think the film is about pedophilia at all, (if I understand that term correctly). I think the film might try to make viewers ponder that, but nothing is definitely shown or mentioned so that it can't be labeled pedophilia.
Also, what did you mean by we have to watch it through the lens and f it being 60 years old?
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Why do you think as Pierre’s infatuation with Cybele grows stronger he withdraws from his girlfriend?
Also, what did you mean by we have to watch it through the lens and f it being 60 years old?
This is interesting, from IMDB trivia:
Decades later after the shooting, Patricia Gozzi confessed that her father at this time, in 1960, was not disturbed by the role she, a child, had with an adult. For her father, they were just friends, nothing more. Child molesting or pedophile matters were not even in people's mind.
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Like I said before, he grows increasingly violent and detached from reality as the movie progresses. He's heading for a complete breakdown. I'm not saying there relationship was beautiful, it was uncomfortable to watch and grew more so until the climax of the film.
No not as if someone was a 60 year old person. I mean as if we had seen the movie back in 1962.
This is interesting, from IMDB trivia:
No not as if someone was a 60 year old person. I mean as if we had seen the movie back in 1962.
This is interesting, from IMDB trivia:
I don’t think the actor”s father can say how everyone thought of it. Why before sharing the trivia did you say I would have viewed it different in that era? The point I”m getting at is if the relationship wasn’t meant to be non plutonic love why would it matter how old it is. Literally have never felt this way about a movie before and I have watched my share of old movies. I don’t think you would even bring that up unless something was there.
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See I think a sexual relationship with anyone is the last thing he wants. He's drawn to innocence in it's purest form.
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Why then is he not violent towards Cybele, only towards people as he views as an obstacle to her?
I ain't saying Pierre was noble or misunderstood, he was exhibiting abnormal and progressively antisocial behaviour. What I like about the film it isn't cut and dry.
I don’t think the actor”s father can say how everyone thought of it.
Why before sharing the trivia did you say I would have viewed it different in that era?
The point I”m getting at is if the relationship wasn’t meant to be non plutonic love why would it matter how old it is. Literally have never felt this way about a movie before and I have watched my share of old movies. I don’t think you would even bring that up unless something was there.
Like I said in my review: I don't know what the relationship was meant to be and that's what I like about the film.
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