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Man, that bashing of Children of Men broke my heart.

I accept any kind of opinion, but it seems weird that you just brush off every element apart from the action (which isn't all that prominent or overbloated). And that you dislike it even more than Snowpiercer makes it even worse.



Welcome to the human race...
Yeah, it's one thing that Citizen didn't care about either of those movies but to care even less about Children...
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I really just want you all angry and confused the whole time.
Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0



Trouble with a capital "T"
Please don't take it personally, it's just my thoughts on a film

Let me explain:

I had high expectations for Children of Men as you highly recommended it and I respect your taste in films. I remember putting it into the DVD player and telling my wife, "this is going to be a good one, it's a deep psychological, sci fi movie"

But I didn't see anything special in the film. Sorry, but other than lots of chase scenes and gun battles, I really didn't get much out of it. You should know, I find almost all lengthy chase/fight scenes boring, so it's not my type of movie. I'm not saying it sucked and if a person likes that sort of thing then it works well.

I didn't make a connection to the film, I didn't care about the characters, I didn't care about the story, I was never emotionally invested. I would have liked more on the Human Project element and the exploration of how society change with zero births....Yes it did mention that but not in a way that seemed relevant. It was as if the higher loftiness ideas were grafted onto a action sci fi film.



Welcome to the human race...
Please don't take it personally, it's just my thoughts on a film
It's okay, I figure that, good as it is, it's not for everyone. I just figure that if you dislike it for reasons that I can argue against then I might as well throw in my two cents.

Let me explain:

I had high expectations for Children of Men as you highly recommended it and I respect your taste in films. I remember putting it into the DVD player and telling my wife, "this is going to be a good one, it's a deep psychological, sci fi movie"

But I didn't see anything special in the film. Sorry, but other than lots of chase scenes and gun battles, I really didn't get much out of it. You should know, I find almost all lengthy chase/fight scenes boring, so it's not my type of movie. I'm not saying it sucked and if a person likes that sort of thing then it works well.
Yeah, I believe I addressed this in that there weren't actually that many chases or gun battles. There were two major lengthy action sequences - the car scene about a third of the way through and the finale - but otherwise nothing major. It's okay to not like sequences like that, but you seem to assert that the film was made up primarily of those, which it really wasn't. The bulk of the film actually does consist of scenes that are driven by character and dialogue without that much in the way of overriding tension.

I didn't make a connection to the film, I didn't care about the characters, I didn't care about the story, I was never emotionally invested. I would have liked more on the Human Project element and the exploration of how society change with zero births....Yes it did mention that but not in a way that seemed relevant. It was as if the higher loftiness ideas were grafted onto a action sci fi film.
Ah, well, that's a whole other thing. One of the best things about Children of Men is how it didn't go over-the-top in its development of a childless society, but a large chunk of it was rooted in background details that bled over into the main narrative in a believable manner. There was the implication that much of the world had descended into chaos as a result of the pandemic and that Britain had maintained some degree of stability due to its incredibly fascist anti-refugee regime, which was extremely relevant to the story since not only was the first human baby being carried by such a refugee but that part of the heroes' escape involved breaking into a refugee camp.

The Human Project's near-irrelevance to the plot at large ends up being an extension of the film's meditation of the nature of faith - it's revealed that not even the people in contact with the Human Project know if it genuinely exists (with it being explained that communication with the project is achieved through a series of messengers to the point that it might very well be fabricated) and that the entire mission is based on the presumption that it must exist, because otherwise what are they even fighting for? Having the Human Project exist as some ultimate and potentially impossible goal rather than a significant factor in the plot served the plot better as a result (especially when its existence was actually revealed at the absolute end of the film, and even then there's no telling whether or not their motivations were genuinely altruistic considering how untrustworthy the rebel group actually turned out to be). The fact that Clive Owen is willing to give up everything and die for this possibly hopeless cause is what matters.



Trouble with a capital "T"
I wish I would have suggested we try and watch these around the same time. Destiny mentioned that and I think it's a great idea.

I would answer you further Iro, but as I said it's been awhile now since I watched Children of Men and I can't remember the movie scene by scene. You're an astute observer of film and I respect your opinions. I would love to 'wrangle it' around more but for that I would need to rewatch the film.

Are you watching any of the films in the Watch List? If so I might watch a few so we can discuss them at more depth.



Welcome to the human race...
I wish I would have suggested we try and watch these around the same time. Destiny mentioned that and I think it's a great idea.

I would answer you further Iro, but as I said it's been awhile now since I watched Children of Men and I can't remember the movie scene by scene. You're an astute observer of film and I respect your opinions. I would love to 'wrangle it' around more but for that I would need to rewatch the film.

Are you watching any of the films in the Watch List? If so I might watch a few so we can discuss them at more depth.
Well, if you think it's worth your time to give it a second chance then go for it. I'm going to try to watch as many of the Watch List films as I can, though that'll depend on how easily I can find and watch them.



A system of cells interlinked
Children of Men


Was on my Top 10 of all time for years.
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” ― Thomas Sowell



Now it hurts even more that you say you respect my taste in film and was let down by this. (unless that was directed to Iro)

Haha, but really though, you explained it a little better here the second time, Citizen, and I don't mind you criticizing the film, as long as I can see what you mean. When you said that you didn't connect with the film in any way, I understand a whole lot more, because I've had those movie experiences where I wanted to like it but was so disconnected and distanced with it that I just couldn't get into it, even if I wanted to. But yeah, still a little sad you didn't like it but hey, you can't love every film just because there are others who do.



I just watched Starship Troopers and I thought it was entertaining, but nothing special. The acting is bad, the guy learns that his whole city is wiped out and he doesn't cry, nor seem to be affeced by it. I know it's an action film, but that's why I don't watch a lot of them, this manichean vision of human beings that are cool, not emotion driven.


Also, I don't know if it was a satire of the american army or something, but this whole citizen thing is so stupid it doesn't make any sense. You're either a piece of garbage or you serve your country. There are a lot of debate that are possible on patriotism and this kind of stuff and I prefer to see the debate then to have this stupidity thrown at me, but yet again it might be a satire. What leads me to believe the movie doesn't take itself to seriously, or in litteral term is at the end when they learn that the bug is scared they're happy, they want want the ''adversary'' to be scared a little like the US army: ''you're either with us or with the terrorists'' a very brilliant cough cough ahole said a little while ago.
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I do not speak english perfectly so expect some mistakes here and there in my messages



Trouble with a capital "T"
Starship Troopers

Questions for everyone who wishes to discuss it, (this was my nomination, by the way).

What is being satirized? How and why is that done?

What should the protangist done differently? (if anything)



Ah, well, that's a whole other thing. One of the best things about Children of Men is how it didn't go over-the-top in its development of a childless society, but a large chunk of it was rooted in background details that bled over into the main narrative in a believable manner. There was the implication that much of the world had descended into chaos as a result of the pandemic and that Britain had maintained some degree of stability due to its incredibly fascist anti-refugee regime, which was extremely relevant to the story since not only was the first human baby being carried by such a refugee but that part of the heroes' escape involved breaking into a refugee camp.

The Human Project's near-irrelevance to the plot at large ends up being an extension of the film's meditation of the nature of faith - it's revealed that not even the people in contact with the Human Project know if it genuinely exists (with it being explained that communication with the project is achieved through a series of messengers to the point that it might very well be fabricated) and that the entire mission is based on the presumption that it must exist, because otherwise what are they even fighting for? Having the Human Project exist as some ultimate and potentially impossible goal rather than a significant factor in the plot served the plot better as a result (especially when its existence was actually revealed at the absolute end of the film, and even then there's no telling whether or not their motivations were genuinely altruistic considering how untrustworthy the rebel group actually turned out to be). The fact that Clive Owen is willing to give up everything and die for this possibly hopeless cause is what matters.
It's indeed an extremely bleak movie. It reminds me of The Road as well, another apocalyptic film with extremely bleak atmosphere, but Children of Men is more intelligent.

The part of the movie I like the most is while admiring Guernica,



they comment that in a hundred years nobody will be able to appreciate art like this.



Starship Troopers

Questions for everyone who wishes to discuss it, (this was my nomination, by the way).

What is being satirized? How and why is that done?

What should the protangist done differently? (if anything)
When I was 11 I didn't understand it was a satire, I took it as just a military sci fi movie, but I was 11.

Though the novel takes itself very seriously as does the 1988 anime adaptation, the 1997 Hollywood movie in the other hand is almost obviously satirical, not quite South Park levels but it's pretty ludicrous at many moments. One of the most ludicrous parts is the "censored" part near the end.



What is being satirized? How and why is that done?: I don't know if it is a satire, but if it is I think it's the blind patriotism of americans and how they marginalize their ''enemies''. It is showed by the manichean way in which the characters hates the bugs and don't explore any other alternative then to destroy them. A little like americans did during the cold war, particularly in vietnam, McCarthy would be an other good exemple with the hate of communism, etc. This black and white vision of good and evil.


How the character should have reacted? Like a human being not a caricature of one. I understand he's a badass or something, but I don't know anyone who is more affected by a girl breaking up with him then with his entire town (including his parents) being killed.



It's a satire of right wing/fascist values. Also, individualism is essentially opposed to these values and the military tries to crush the individual into just a piece of the military machine. The main character gets brainwashed into a piece of the military mechanism rather than an individual human being.



Trouble with a capital "T"
Thanks PG and Guap for your thoughts. Before I say mine, I will give anybody else a chance to answer those questions.

BTW I will be watching Paprika tonight and I'm still waiting on my library to get me a few more movies.