Star Wars - The Original Trilogy

I really need to ask this question which has been bugging me for a while: Why is the original Star Wars trilogy considered a masterpiece? I believe Star Wars movies are so much a part of pop culture that we can't see beyond Darth Vader, Yoda and lightsabers, and we can't realize how badly dialogs are written, how two-dimensional characters are, and how poorly it is acted. If original Star Wars came out today, what do you think the critics would say? On second thought, critics never did much appreciate the original trilogy. Wasn't there a dramatic shift in critical perspective towards it when the new trilogy arrived? Is the same thing going to happen to the new trilogy when/if Lucas makes another Star Wars movie? I believe so. Sure, original trilogy was a turning point for special effects (so was The Phantom Menace) and it's fun, but is this enough to think of these movies as of masterpieces? To put them on top of every "best of" list, to say they are better than so many great movies, I believe is wrong.

It's a different society now, and yes, they were THAT good back then. I know, because I was there. Critics loved the films back then, everybody did. The new films have nothing to do with how popular the old films were/are. The entire planet loved Star Wars when it first hit in 1977, and who cares if the acting is stiff in these things? They aren't a showcase for Academy Award winning acting. They were supposed to be fun pulp adventure stories ala Flash Gordon of the 30s, laced with concepts from mythology.

They were... and man, was it fun.

Not sure where you are getting the info that critics didn't care for the original trilogy, because you are dead wrong.

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Because it was one of the first things I saw in the cinema and we all like to keep a hold of a little part of our youth. Add to that directors like Kevin Smith and latterly the Simon Pegg/Edgar Wright combo who are unabashed fanboys.

Thirtysomething film journalists also hold quite a bit of sway.

I don't find them an easy watch these days, though, but still bought the boxset as soon at it became available.

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"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how the Tatty 100 is done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Brendan Behan

Pauline Kael, Jonathan Rosenbaum, Peter Keough, Stanley Kauffmann, Vincent Canby, Judith Martin, Gene Siskel and bunch of other critics disliked the original movies upon their first release.
And exactly, the Star Wars movies were such an important part of so many people's lives and they have such fond memories of them. That is the reason why they still can't perceive it properly. It's the same thing with me and Tim Burton's Batman, I have fond childhood memories of it and still can't stand any criticism against it, even though I know it's not that good a movie.

For me, the only thing that dramatically changed was the media coverage. Marketing and media is much more savy since the first series... plus, the new series obviously had the advantage of riding the original series coat tails with all of the anticipation. I don't ever remember during the original series of seeing hordes of people waiting in line wearing 'Star Wars' costumes with the same press coverage. Maybe I'm wrong? As far as a change in critical perspective? No. I don't think so.


Yes, I believe if Lucas made another series, it would become just as popular. If for nothing else, people have invested themselves in caring about the characters and expect exciting visuals. They'll always be a beloved part of pop culture whether someone terms them masterpieces or not. Eh...don't sweat it...after all, I'm sure there are also people who can't understand why the 'Mona Lisa' is considered a masterpiece either.


Sorry, but I had to address this part. I can see is the datedness getting to you...but as far as acting goes...I'll take watching anyone from the original series over watching Hayden Christensen any day.

I'm one of those who loved the first series more than than his latest. One thing I like better about the original series is how the story uses the Princess Leia character through out the series. She's consistent and strong through out and a believable character was built. I think Lucas butchered the character of Padma in both the second and third movies....especially towards the end. He made her character inconsistent and unbelievable by the end (at least for me) which really annoyed me.

I am not trying to defend the new trilogy at all. Maybe it's really much worse than the original one (good point with Hayden Christensen's terrible acting, and yeah, "She's lost the will to live" is the worst piece of writing I've seen in quite a while), but I'm trying to say that the first three movies aren't such great movies as we are constantly being told throughout various polls and reviews.

The original Star Wars was so good for a few very basic reasons.

It had a simple good vs evil formula that used ground-breaking special effects with characters that people could bond with and care about.
These simple things allowed a science fiction & fantasy movie to capture the hearts and imaginations of people everywhere.

As a kid in the movie theater in 1977 I can honestly say it was the first movie to truely 'blow my mind'.
To this day where stories are recycled and special effects are saturated in every form of media available, I've never seen another movie that had this effect on me.

Simply put: the Star Wars experience was magical.
It's too bad that kind of magic doesn't exist anymore.
The only way to even remotely experience it is to remember it the way it was.
And that's why alot of people will always treasure it.

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Fear the Probe!

Properly?

So please, enlighten me as to what the proper way to perceive something is.

Come on man, that statement is ever so pretentious.

Also, for each critic you name that allegedly didn't like it, I can find you ten that did. Actually, let's do that:

Clicky here to see the collected reviews for Star Wars, by major critics everywhere. It sits at about 95% positive. I think that speaks for itself.

The film is absolutely showing its age, in everything from simplicity, to directorial style, to the stilted dialog you mention.

Still, All the parts of the whole coalesce into something greater than the sum of it's flawed parts. The people that sat down to experience these films when they were released experienced a magic that may not ever happen again. Star Wars is a wonderful, creative story, populated with fantastic, imaginative characters, settings, and concepts, and executed as a labor of love by a conceptual genius. Yeah, they guy is a ****** director, and, as he has himself admitted, the master of wooden dialog.

And I love every minute of it...

Now, if you want to pick apart Return of the Jedi... We can talk...

LOL.
Ewoks took down a legion of the Empire's best troops.
For a concept so lame they did make it look cool.

Even though most people (myself included) considered Jedi the least favorite of the first trilogy, it was better than most of the second trilogy.
And even better still than alot of other sci-fi that came out after.
Ewoks aside, the last half of Jedi was still pretty good (space battle, light saber duel). As a whole the entire movie just wasn't up to par with the first two.

If only Jedi was directed by Jodorowsky or Lynch.....

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...or Spielberg.

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TOP 100 | "Don't let the bastards grind you down!"

Oh...ok. My mistake for thinking you were placing the new series above the old. Maybe if you try to look at the series though the eyes of the people who first saw it and got hooked on it, you can at least appreciate the fondness for them. I agree completely with Sci-Fi-Guy's post. It's kinda true for most older movies. You need to look past some obvious things and enjoy it.


Pick...apart?! Noooooo~~~

What didn't you like about Return of the Jedi?

I liked it.


Awwww...I loved that scene! (Of course, I do like a slice of cheese from time to time.

How could you not like the Ewoks!? They were sooooo cute!~


What was it about Jedi that you didn't think was up to par with the other two? Just the Ewok part of the story or something else? Just curious.



Pyro and Sinny...

Just curious...why do you think 'Jedi' should have been directed by someone else. What you you think they would/could have done differently or better?

It's not that I didn't like Jedi, I just happened to like Star Wars and Empire more.
But yeah, it did lose some cool points with the 'teddy bears'.
We didn't need a Star Wars movie to try to be 'cute' (Star Wars Holiday Special & The Ewok Adventure movies anyone?).
Course the Ewoks were alot better than Jar Jar.

My ranking of all 6 movies would have to be:
1st - Star Wars
2nd - Empire
3rd - Clones
4th - Jedi
5th - Sith
6th - Menace

It's not that i think that per se, but those two were the directors originally lined up to direct, or asked to, something. Considering their style, Jedi would've been a completely different affair i'd hazard.

Thanks for taking the time and explaining. I can see your point. Lol...I never saw Star Wars Holiday Special or The Ewok Adventure movies before.

I'm a little surprised you put 'Clones' over 'Jedi' though. The romance between Padma and Anakin was so completly unbelivable to me ( or maybe it was just the wooden Christensen) that killed the movie for me (and obviously lefy a lasting impression). In fact, eventhough I knew Padma had to fall for Anikn, I was thinking she was crazy and should really fall for Obi-Wan. Ewan McGregor was sooo much more in everything sense than Hayden Christensen.

What was it about 'Clones' that struck a cord with you? It's been awhile since I've seen it.

I didn't know there were other directors lined up to direct 'Jedi". Thanks for the info.

Might have got Jodorowsky info misplaced with Lynch and Dune, but according to IMDB Cronenberg was also approached. Coincidently my two favourite directors.

Yeah I just said it as a "what if" really. I heard Lucas wanted Spielberg at one point, but becuase he was in the DGA, and Lucas wasn't, Spielberg couldn't do it. Or something like that.

I like Jedi. But you have to admit that it would have been a lot better if Wookies replaced the Ewoks, like originally intended.

who dosen't like star wars ? the main fun of it for me are the many characters , enviorments , and creatures - knowing more about them from external sources alot too make them deeper

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And believe me...you don't want to.

I was actually up in the air about the placings of those two. I could go either way.
I do have to say though I was more excited watching Clones moreso than Menace or Sith so I figured I'd put it in my top 3 SW films. The romance story aside, it was just packed with so much visual awesomeness I actually felt like I was watching a Star wars movie again.

I was hoping to enjoy Sith way more than I did but they ruined it for me by not showing Anikin's fall into the Dark Side properly.
It was like Palpatine flipped a switch and suddenly Ani abandoned everything he was taught just because Palpi hinted that there MAY be a way to resurect the dead if Ani's dream came true.
Weak.
That and not showing the Jedi slaughter ruined it for me.
The duel between Anikin and Obi-Wan was awesome though.