What is a neo-western?

Holden Pike, Yoda, and others on here that are knowledgeable about film and consider themselves experts in this area. I have noticed that certain contemporary films or series are being referred to as neo-westerns. To me, this seems like an ill-defined, ambiguous term, and I'd love to hear how everyone else interprets this categorization. What I've been able to learn through my research is if a film has "Western sensibilities," but is set in a contemporary time period that is outside of the historical period that the Western usually depicts (such as the 1800's, for example), it can be referred to as a neo-western. To me, if a film is set outside of the historical period that the Western usually depicts, it really doesn't have the look and feel of a true Western. "Yellowstone" feels more to me like a drama that centers around ranchers who wear Western attire. "Hell or High Water" feels a lot more to me like a crime drama than it does a Western, but both are considered neo-Westerns.

Comparing contemporary series and films that are classified as neo-westerns to the films of John Wayne or Clint Eastwood, for example, there are superficial similarities such as the setting, characters wearing Western attire, and sometimes a good vs evil dichotomy, but I don't see how contemporary examples really fit the Western genre on a deeper level.

Are there established criteria that must be satisfied, or required elements in common that a film or TV series generally should contain to be classified as a neo-western? Or, is this a somewhat amorphous, ambiguous term that is kind of in the eye of the beholder? And, what does it mean to have Western themes or sensibilities? I'd like to learn more about this concept and hear whether there is a generally agreed upon understanding of this term.

Similar to Neo-Noir, it's a fairly nebulous term that often overlaps with other genres. A film like No Country For Old Men is both a neo-western and a Neo-Noir.

It simply means exactly what you described: it has various genre norms and tropes that are indicative of the western genre but it's given a contemporary setting.

It's fittingly vague, however, as "western" itself covers a broad range of subgenres and territory, where something like The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance doesn't feel particularly akin to The Shooting, Dead Man or El Topo in regards to dramatic elements.

However, all are identifiably western due to the elements they share and the setting.

Neo-western is similar. So even if Hell or High Water is also a neo-noir crime flick that homages High Sierra in its climax, its still a neo western due to the setting, character archetypes, imagery, shootouts and theme.

Thanks for your response on this. This is still unclear to me. Can anyone provide more comprehensive detail on the common themes, elements and tropes that are generally characteristic of the new-western genre? Thank you!

It really depends on :

a)Your definition of a Western in the first place (some people class Star Wars as a Western)
b) When you think the Classic Western era ended. Just like the noir era ended in the early 50s(?)

Personally I'd say these are all Neo Westerns:

Bone Tomahawk
In the Valley of Elah
A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night
Bacurau
The Rider
Wind River
Hell or High Water
Goldstone
Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia

I think some people class Peckinpah's Westerns as neo because they were so revisionist.

So is the definition of a western a movie set in a land of lawlessness where heroes have to take matters into their own hands and go on a journey? Would something like Death Wish (1974) be considered a Western therefore?

No, the frontier aspect is maybe the single most important criteria.

I'm not sure what a neo-western would be (though I'm flattered to be thought an expert on this--I am definitely not). But the feeling I had when I read the question, and the one I'd give if I had to answer without pinning down the term, would be that neo-westerns are somber and rougher and often about the feeling of the world passing you by.

Revisionist Western and Neo-Western are not the same thing, though.

After rateyourmusic.com:

Then again, the classification is just what it is. You can come up with your own and talk about Meat Pie Westerns. Oh wait, that's already a thing!

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Yeah I agree. But 2 things can be right at the same time. For example I'd class Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (1974) as a Neo Western and also a Revisionist Western.

I'd say it's just a Neo-Western if only just because it's not taking place when most westerns do (revisionist or not). They use cars instead of horses! I think that's the main distinction.

The following list is all Revisionist Westerns and not a single Neo or Classic Western. Note when all these films take place (and possibly where, too).

Johnny Guitar (1954)
The Wild Bunch (1969)
McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971)
Unforgiven (1992)
Bone Tomahawk (2015)
The Revenant (2015)

I forget what period Bone Tomahawk was set in but I think you're right. There's a few films that address the Mexican USA border which have a distinct Western feel to them (border town, stetsons and horses) yet they're set in modern day times. I'd definitely say they belong in the Neo Western conversation.. There's an underrated film called 'Frontera' which deals with immigration (Ed Harris and Michael Pena). Got to be Neo-Western.

My definition of a western is: a movie that's set in and about the American western frontier. That western frontier only occurred at a specific period in history, from the mid 19th century to the very early 20th century. One can include the bordering Mexican and Canadian frontiers of the same time period. Therefore IMO a neo-western is a non sequitur. Most of the films called neo-westerns are actually crime dramas set in rural areas of the modern west.

IMO:
Bone Tomahawk...neo-western or revisionist western
In the Valley of Elah...crime drama
A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night...definitely not a western
Bacurau....mixed genre but mostly fantasy/sci-fi/horror
The Rider...drama aka melodrama
Wind River...crime drama
Hell or High Water...crime drama
Goldstone...crime thriller
Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia....crime drama

Bone Tomahawk is definitely not a neo-western. It’s set during the post-Civil War era most Westerns take place. Modern westerns (such as: Hateful Eight, the Revenant, Hostiles, etc) are not neo-westerns. Just westerns (or revisionist, post-modern, whatever other sub genre qualifier you want to lay on it).

So you're saying the "neo" refers not to the style or real-life date, but to the time period in which it takes place?

Yes. In that regard, it is unlike the neo-noir, which refers to the era the film is MADE, rather than set.

This largely has to do with noir and western differing by what defines them in the first place, as the western in inextricably linked to its setting (its right in the name).

Films set in Australia in the days of Lawlessness for example are 100% Westerns.

I would call them westerns but not 100%, more like Pan-Westerns.

They are called Meat Pie Westerns by some but that's an awful expression. I guess they are just Australian Westerns.

I mean if we're going to go right through film history we should probably unpick some of the great Westerns like Magnificent Seven being based on Japanese cinema like Seven Samurai.

Yojimbo is technically a Western as it inspired a Fistful of dollars.

Ah yes, thanks, that makes sense.

Keep the responses coming. I very much appreciate this discussion, and thanks for contributing your thoughts. I'd love for Holden Pike to weigh in, since he recently did the top 100 Westerns thread, which was pretty damn impressive, and I'd love to hear how he thinks of neo-westerns, any recurring themes he highlights, and how he characterizes them.

From these responses, it seems like many of you are also not entirely clear about what makes something a neo-western, and that it might be a relatively new term and may not be a widely discussed or accepted term in film criticism. It also sounds like many neo-westerns can span multiple genres, so a film like "No Country for Old Men" might be primarily a noir film, or type of crime thriller, but could also by some people be considered a neo-western because it included a Western setting, and is set in a time outside of the historical period of the traditional Western. To some, that could make it a Western of some type.

I also find some of the comments on revisionist westerns to be interesting. To me, a revisionist western is very different than a neo-western, but some see them as overlapping terms. For example, "Unforgiven" is to me a classic revisionist western because it subverts the genre expectations of the traditional Western, and it's demythologizing of the American west by focusing on anti-heroic characters and the deleterious consequences of the violence that was typical of the period stands out as very different than many of John Wayne's films for example. But, to me, "Unforgiven" is still very much identifiable as a Western thematically, tonally, visually, story-wise etc, while, in many cases, I wouldn't consider many of the films some consider to be neo-western to share those traditional Western archetypes.

@Holden Pike, assuming he doesn't mind being pinged for an expertise request.