Your Most Controversial Film Opinions?

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I think this is true, and good to point out. It's impossible to say you don't consume art from X because of Y without it reading as potentially aggressive, unless you go out of your way to say otherwise or something. It carries an implied criticism whether the person means to be critical or not.

I also think there's a distinction between just describing a reaction, and justifying it on a philosophical level. I used to be very scared of flying, and that fear was a real thing that I had to take into account even though I knew it wasn't rational. I just didn't defend the fear as a reasonable thing or suggest others should be more afraid. Similarly, I think it's totally reasonable for someone to say that the intellectual case for consuming art from <insert anyone personally problematic here> holds water, but that they just feel bad anyway, and it's not worth the trouble to push through that discomfort.

In short: it's possible to say this stuff as description, rather than prescription.
We are all of us preachers in private or public capacities. We have no sooner uttered words than we have given impulse to other people to look at the world, or some small part of it, in our way. Thus caught up in a great web of inter-communication and inter-influence, we speak as rhetoricians affecting one another for good or ill.
Richard Weaver, Language Is Sermonic

Communication comes from a desire for communion. We feel apart and wish to be joined. Listening, real listening, is where we move towards the other. Talking is where we attempt to move the other towards us. Communication, as desiring, also comes from a place of pain of discomfort. We find something not quite right about the world and so we try to alter it with symbols. We're always prescribing in the sense that we're always seeking symbolic alteration, even even we're only prescribing a description ("Look at this."). And this means that there is an inevitable moral aspect to all communication. And thus we're never entirely above criticism when we speak, as we're always prescribing. Albeit, not every mild prescription (e.g., of a description) should be treated as a Fire and Brimstone sermon and attacked as an exorbitant demand placed on the hearer.



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So if "Jeanne Dielman" was even longer, wouldn't it prove the point a few say the movie is supposed to be about? It would illustrate even more of that mundane life.



Talking is where we attempt to move the other towards us.
Agreed, but with the distinction that "move the other towards us" does not necessarily mean "persuade the other closer to our position." Sometimes you move them "towards" you just by helping them to see your perspective. I agree that communication is not neutral: you speak in order than you might be heard. But being "heard" is a necessary-but-not-sufficient condition to being agreed with.



Right. "I don't watch movies from people I know have sexually abused children" inevitably sounds like the silent part is but I guess you're a big fan of child abuse and/or don't care about child victims?.

My only conflicted feelings around other people consuming movies from people who have victimized others is that money, fame, and attention are all things that give people power, and the more power someone has the more leverage they have to abuse others and get away with it. But this is, like, a huge problem in society generally (the giving of resources to those who use those resources to harm others) and probably not a make-or-break moment for someone deciding to watch Rosemary's Baby.

Sometimes it's easier to separate the art from the artist when six feet of dirt is already doing so.



Agreed, but with the distinction that "move the other towards us" does not necessarily mean "persuade the other closer to our position." Sometimes you move them "towards" you just by helping them to see your perspective. I agree that communication is not neutral: you speak in order than you might be heard. But being "heard" is a necessary-but-not-sufficient condition to being agreed with.
Sure. We're all preachers, and we're mostly terrible at it. These hot takes threads are funny, in a way, because we all recycle our failed sermons here. "Now, seriously, this Nolan fellow should not get ANY more of your money. Wait! Hear me out... ...s**t!"



Cats is a good movie.
Thank you. Contrary to popular belief, these threads can be informative and productive.

We now know that we should never let Allaby babysit children.

WARNING: "I'm just saying..." spoilers below
He might show them Cats.



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Thank you. Contrary to popular belief, these threads can be informative and productive.

We now know that we should never let Allaby babysit children.

WARNING: "I'm just saying..." spoilers below
He might show them Cats.
Children aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate the film Cats.



Hitchcock and Kubrick are both overrated.



Children aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate the film Cats.
Neither are a lot of adults!



Victim of The Night
Cats is a good movie.
I'm not sure exactly how I feel about Cats but I do know how I feel about the reaction to Cats.
Which is that it was possibly the most overblown bunch of nonsense I have ever encountered in all my years of following Film Criticism and box-office. It was like people saw that they could get away with shitting on this movie without blowback and it became sport and a pile-on.
Over the course of my one, theatrical viewing I found myself at first thinking, "I'm not sure this is really that bad." But by the middle of the film I found myself thinking, "I'm really not sure this is bad at all."
And ever since then I have wondered. I read the criticism at length and just didn't vibe with hardly any of it. You didn't like the animation? It didn't bother me in the least, we've seen much worse special effects in box-office successes. You didn't like the cockroaches? Why not, are you just squeamish about cockroaches? Cuz I think that was actually the point.
I thought the movie was a fairly well-done adaptation of the massively successful musical. It's already established that the songs are not only good, they're canon at this point.
I just really had a hard time understanding what was so bad about this movie and certainly understanding it was Historically Bad, which it was instantly labeled and has become the book on it. I saw two movies that day and the second one was The Rise Of Skywalker and I'll say without the slightest hesitation that I would have suffered less that day if I had just seen Cats twice instead.
Anyway, I haven't re-watched it but I have been left completely at a loss over the group-reaction to this film.



There is definitely a thing, where a film is bad or a disappointment, where it becomes the placeholder Bad Film and everyone just dogpiles on it for awhile. It usually is, actually, a bad film, but when it reaches that point the level of ire it gets is rarely in proportion to its badness.



There is definitely a thing, where a film is bad or a disappointment, where it becomes the placeholder Bad Film and everyone just dogpiles on it for awhile. It usually is, actually, a bad film, but when it reaches that point the level of ire it gets is rarely in proportion to its badness.
This probably always happened, but it has become exponentially worse with the Internet and even more so with social media.



I haven't seen Cats (I might or might not get to it someday), but I think almost all the criticism it gets is in regard to the admittedly creepy/uncanny valley cat costumes. While criticism towards that aspect is completely sound, I think it's a case where people are focusing the entirety of their criticisms on that one specific aspect and are looking at the film through one single lens. This is an awful way of looking at film. You're letting your dislike of one single aspect take charge over everything else. I feel similarly whenever I watch a film with blackface/brownface/etc., and then I read through the Letterboxd/IMDb reviews and see numerous half star or 1/5 ratings which focus solely on that aspect. Is it racist? Yes. Is it sound to mark a film down for a racist aspect? Yes. But seeing people focus solely on that aspect and nothing else and thinking that alone warrants a 1/10, well, I think a review from a Letterboxd friend says this better than I can: https://letterboxd.com/macrology/fil...e-boy-is-here/
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Ishtar was the first of these movies that became a shorthand for badness, for people who were too lazy to come up with a better answer.


I would wager that the majority of the people who complain about these movies haven't even seen them.


Unless they are just really mad about the absence of cat buttholes. Then their complaints would be entirely justified.



Victim of The Night
Ishtar was the first of these movies that became a shorthand for badness, for people who were too lazy to come up with a better answer.


I would wager that the majority of the people who complain about these movies haven't even seen them.


Unless they are just really mad about the absence of cat buttholes. Then their complaints would be entirely justified.
That's right, I remember well the Ishtar backlash and I have friends to this day cite it as the Worst Movie Ever and I'm really not sure they ever saw it.



Is it really controversial to dislike a widely popular film, or admire a widely condemned film/film-maker? So much of what's said in this thread comes down to a sense of ethics - whether it is right or wrong to separate art from its creator. We really should celebrate the best of every work of art, focus and express upon its best ideas, instead of focusing on valorizing (or disparaging) the person who made possible the art. Afterall, the person will die but the ideas left behind will remain. Which ideas resonate? Ask not what we must do (ethics), but what we can do (power).