UKRAINE

This is why I suggest the U.N. form an emergency military (especially an air force) - with all vehicles bearing the U.N. insignia - an extension of their blue-helmeted "Peacekeepers".

NATO stepping up is dangerous - probably what Putin wants and is trying to provoke with his barbarism - because NATO is Putin's arch enemy - it was formed to defend against communist expansion. NATO is already one of Putin's irrational "excuses" for attacking Ukraine. Putin would probably love to launch nuclear bombs against NATO members.

But the U.N. is different - Russia is part of the organization. Lots of non-NATO countries belong to the U.N. Russia's allies belong to the U.N. So if the U.N. says we're stepping in (based on their majority vote) to stop the genocide, remove your weapons and establish a no-fly zone - then Russia would have to resign from the U.N., and / or force its allies to resign, or be willing to retaliate against non-NATO countries, and be put in a position of "Russia vs. the world" (not just NATO - the group they already love to hate).

To be fair, the basis of Putin's vision is already pretty much Russia vs. the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founda...of_Geopolitics

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that's pretty much the best thing i've read so far...and i know you're not actually saying this, but sooner or later every politician will be refferred to as hitler.

Figures... I just started receiving Social Security last summer, after paying into it since '74. Damn ruskies will push the button just to spite me.

There’s a firm misunderstanding by many in the west about how Russia works. And it’s why we continue to repeat the same mistakes over and over. Squeezing Russian oligarchs is an ineffective means of enacting change within the country because those oligarchs exist at the behest of Putin.

Cult of personality is an integral part of how Russian leaders maintain control, and Putin is no different in this regard. Are there dissidents? Yes, of course, but there’s no effective means for them to voice their dissent within the country because the state apparatus works to serve the agenda of Putin and reinforce the cult.

There’s little hope in economic sanctions bringing an end to this conflict. If anything, it may very well help Putin to reinforce his narrative of western interference within Europe and the world at large. And the state’s apparatus will gladly disseminate that narrative.

The Bolsheviks in the October Revolution of 1917 used Ukraine to build the basis for the USSR, so it is indeed integral to the country’s history. To argue otherwise is to argue with history.

Ukraine’s continuing independence is going to be solely determined by their populace, which has shown stern opposition to Russian influence. And they need weaponry and organized logistics to maintain morale. If we don’t give them that then there’s little hope they will stave off their aggressors.

I am trying to stay out of this discussion, but the above is very comprehensive and largely factual - this from someone with the inside scoop from Russia. Most very well-connected relatives in Russia and “reg’lar folks” alike have shrugged the sanctions off, if anything, that boosts morale. It’ll have to be something else. My incredibly right-wing parents expect him to get murdered, for real, not tomorrow but eventually. Father who works in defence gives it 5 years.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that ends up being the case, and the power vacuum will be filled by any number of Putin’s lackeys. Or we could see civil war. It’s hard to tell, but civil war in Russia scares me far more than the current state of events.

I’d also like to clarify my earlier comments about the October Revolution: Ukraine was one of the few independent governments that rose up after the February Revolution and disposing of the Tsar. They managed to resist the influence of Bolshevik revolutionaries for a few years (striking down a handful of coups and government riots in the process) but the government’s values of those years gave way to continued resistance from the Bolsheviks. That’s precisely why Ukraine’s continuing independence now is so important to stability in Europe. They have wanted autonomy and independence since the deposing of the Tsar and it’s only been since the collapse of the USSR that they’ve been able to realize that dream. We can’t allow a repeat of history by letting them fall to Russian influence again.

How come? What do you think that’d entail?

Civil war within one country can very easily spill out into neighboring countries, and it’ll destabilize the region. And, given their nuclear arsenal, civil war in Russia could result in some catastrophic results.

I haven’t kept up with who the major players are under Putin, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find if some of them are more radical. If one of them takes power and it results in a military coup we could see that conflict spill out into the surrounding regions, including China. When a populace without autonomy witnesses their neighbors rise to assert their own will it has a domino effect, much like what we saw with the Arab Spring.

EDIT: Here is a great analysis of the dangers of civil war. While it mainly focuses on ethnic conflicts, such as the ones we’ve seen in Africa, the logic still holds for civil wars that are not ethnic based.

https://voxeu.org/article/spread-civil-war

There's a lot of blame to go around, but there should also be the term "sleepy donald" because I think hanging out on Twitter for an entire presidency constitutes being sleepy, but possibly in a smarter and less manipulative way

https://www.wionews.com/world/russia...lan-458907/amp

It looks like my insanity theory is really panning out.

Staging a public execution of Putin? Good thinking!

Wait a second...

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It was a strong suggestion and a plea to respect the rules of this board and leave political proselytizing out of it...so the rest of us can keep this thread open and use it.

I like that idea and in a perfect world that would be the way the U.N. worked. But the U.N. never had that much power and in the last few decades the United Nations power has been reduced by waning support from the U.S. I think it all boils down to no super power wants a world wide organization like the U.N. to have more power than they do.

I agree NATO stepping in is dangerous, but so is letting Russian take Ukraine...Do we think if the world lets them have Ukraine that they then won't go for the other former Soviet regions that are now free sovereign nations? It's a classic example of being caught between the Scylla and Charybdis..the proverbial rock and a hard place. It would be very tough to make the correct call.

There's no need for Putin to be murdered....the U.S. can legitimately declare him a war criminal and a terrorist and call for his elimination. Though he's probably hiding deep in his bunker under his palatial mansion. But he can't be that popular in Russia right now...nor can the Ukraine invasion be popular because he's declared martial law in Russia.

I believe strong sanctions and confiscating properties and money of the Russian super rich will result in some Russian mafia taking Putin out. At least I hope so.

I don't think he's crazy, he's using fear and intimidation to help his invasion, much like the pirate Black Beard portrayed a fearless and insane look when he captured ships. It's psychological warfare....First he said he was using nuclear weapons on Ukraine, then he mentioned Russia's father of all bombs, now that news story. To me that says he's not nearly as cocky and strong as people think. He's playing poker and trying to bluff the west into folding.

imagine having mental health problems and then being told that all the head shrinkers are all booked up, and i know perfectly well that none of the drugs i've tried have worked...i feel sorry for the whole fuc*ing world right now, and i've off and on felt that way during the COVID pandemic and people just want me to feel even MORE sorry for them if i talk to them long enough...

Yeah, true. Hopefully, he's just bluffing there. Only time will tell, I guess.

Somebody posted on this thread about when the Soviets during WWII invaded east Poland they rounded up and executed 20,000 military officers and government officials. Putin might not be kidding.

That was in Katyń. Soviets did it and then upon the discovery of the corpses claimed it was Nazis...

Now Russia is using similar tactics in Ukraine. Russian TV broadcasts brainwashing propaganda that claims Ukrainians are bombing their own cities (!!!) to put the blame on Russia. Clearly, all Ukrainians are Nazis, according to Russian TV, so it's OK to invade Ukraine to denazify it... Russian TV claims Ukrainians are torturing and murdering their own civilians... and so on... An old Russian tactic: Whatever you did, simply say the others did it, no matter how inane or preposterous it sounds.

So as anticipated, this is slowly (swiftly?) descending into a “let’s agree Russia is a Satan state/Russians are ****s” rhetoric. On the one hand, I’m never for shutting anything down, I’m really not, so this should by all means carry on, but still, as I’d ask any of my interns, what are you trying to accomplish with the above post? What is your intention? What purpose does any of that serve? “Spreading the truth”? No one in this space appears remotely brainwashed, so…

*shrug*

Since Minio lives close to the situation, it's perfectly fair for him to offer commentary.

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