Are movies depicting prejudice overrated?

An odd question, I know, but I was motivated to start this thread based on Sedai's comment on American History X in the The Official MoFo 100 thread. The film came in at #4 on the list, prompting this reply:

I agree with this. I loved the movie, loved the performances, and I think it should been on the list somewhere, but I would've had it in the bottom half, personally. Anyway, this got me thinking about why American History X is so revered by some. I think it might be the latest example of a generational phenomenon.

It came out at a time in which a number of today's young adults were more impressionable (myself included), and its subject matter is obviously quite profound. This seems to have taken what is clearly a very good film, and catapulted it to the status of "great film" in the eyes of many.

I think a good comparison is Do The Right Thing, which I just saw for the first time recently. I was impressed with it in many ways, but I didn't think it was utterly fantastic as so many other movie lovers seem to. Like American History X, is a technically impressive film by any standard that deals with race relations in sometimes brutal, sometimes shocking ways. And it seems to me that it is revered by the previous generation in largely the same way American History X is revered by the next (with exceptions on both counts, naturally).

I can't help but think, then, that each person only gets to feel profoundly affected by one cinematic treatise on prejudice in their lifetime. One wonders if Crash, then, will have a similar following several years from now based on teenagers seeing it now.

Everyone confronts and ponders issues of race and prejudice in general at some point in their lives. It is an unpleasant thing to consider, and I dare say that films about racism and the like can often be the catalyst. You can ignore these sorts of problems up to a certain point, but it's more or less impossible once they've been played out for you on a giant screen for two hours.

So, what say you, MoFos? Is there a generational tendency for young men and women to attach an inflated admiration to the first good film they see about prejudice? If so, what would you say are each generation's representatives? And if not, why do you think those mentioned above are so admired? Or, do you disagree completely, and think that all of the films mentioned above are brilliant, and merit this admiration regardless of topic?

To be honest I don't think any of the films you mentioned are 'brilliant', and neither are a lot of other films with similar themes.

One film that I didn't like was Crash, I thought it was complete garbage, not even entertaining, and I don't think it's a good film on any level at all....what was it trying to say? It certainly wasn't realistic nor were the characters believable, it seemed to me that it was just about people who were prejudiced at the beginning of the film, and by the end had all learned a lesson - that racism is bad - because their prejudices lead to bad things (like that shop owner guy who thinks he kills that little girl). But is the film necessary? Do we learn anything from it? Well I didn't.

But even films I like, like American History X, seem to be massively overrated because of their subject matter. I liked American History X, I thought it had something to say, the characters had depth to them, but it was no masterpiece.

I wouldn't label Do the Right Thing, Crash, etc. brilliant films, but I would definitely say that American History X is brilliant.

I think that movie is an American masterpiece. Incredible performances from both of the Ed's and unlike Do the Right Thing, Tony Kaye's look at racism was a very harsh and almost scary one.

I find American History X to be the best movie of the last 10 years. I know people who have had their lives changed by watching that movie. It really shows you what something as stupid as hating someone for the color of their skin can lead to.

I'd definitely rate Do The Right Thing over AHX, personally the content of films makes no odds to me about how i rate them. Irreversible is one of the most difficult watches, yet i think it's a brilliantly made film and the harsh subject matter and graphic depictions of violence that would turn people away from the film don't effect my rating.

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to be honest ive not seen american history X or do the right thing but i did see crash. I didnt think it was a great insight into the racial tone of america or anything. I personally enjoyed ther performances and the little stories it told.

teenagers arent just seeing racism in the films mentioned so far.

Save the Last dance - an interratial teenage relationship with ramifications with their social circles

Freedom Writers - a class of teenagers all of different races and gangs

Briefly in cruel intentions and probably lots of other films that no one has realised.

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Undercoverlovers 100 REDUX

Hmm.

I used to like American History X. Now I consider it a good story in a bad film.

Anyways:

"Is there a generational tendency for young men and women to attach an inflated admiration to the first good film they see about prejudice?" - Yoda

Probably. Being young and trying to develop ideas and perspectives is a difficult thing, especially when you're dealing with such a strong topic like race. A movie would be something you could refer to and consider and that could turn it into more than your typical one-night-stand with The Fast & The Furious, which gave me crabs and never called me again. Ouch.

See what I'm saying? If I can apply a movie's topic to reality it's gonna' be more profound than the next King Kong where he fights not one, not two, but THREE dinosaurs! Boo.

Can anyone tell me what this is from? It's not a direct quote, but it's my best guess! Damn it!

"Art is either the mirror held up to society or the hammer designed to shatter it."

I thought it applied to movies dealing with race. Whatever.

Over and out,
DaShizzle

Oh, BTW, when the original MoFo 100 was to be put out before we started the voting again, it was AHX 1 and Fight Club 2.

I'm trying to remember the first film I saw, considered good or otherwise, which deals with prejudice. It might well have been Elephant (1989, Alan Clarke), but I'm sure I saw something earlier than that.

I love Do The Right Thing (and am apathetic towards American History X and Crash) on completely filmic terms. I'm far too cynical (and as a teenager was far too arrogant) to be swayed by a film's 'message', though having to endure Schindler's List in a cinema filled with WWII veterans was an experience I'll never forget.

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"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how the Tatty 100 is done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Brendan Behan

I love Crash, Do the Right Thing, also

The Searchers
In the Heat of the Night
Guess Who's Coming to Dinner (1967)
Glory
Iron Jawed Angels
To Kill a Mockingbird
Pleasantville
12 Angry Men
Philadelphia
and Crossfire

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"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."- Groucho Marx

ur right uconjack, the racism in pleasantville is brilliant - its racism against people of colour, literally. It was unusual because it was racism against essentially white people from white people

In my opinion, yes, the younger population tend to overly praise a film dealing with prejudice because of it's subject matter. Be that as it may, that does not deprive the film of it's greatness simply because it is overrated by a younger audience.

In my opinion, Do the Right Thing is one of worst films dealing with racism of all time simply for the fact that the hours of poor acting, poor dialogue, poor writing, poor characters, and how plain boring it was only lead up to a 20 some minute climax that was supposed to drive the point of racism home, but failed to. Do The Right Thing doesn't even grant the audience the privilege of thinking deeper into the issue of racism from the urge that should be provoked by the actual film. Honestly, I would argue my points to death, but I won't simply because I have many times before, and many times on these forums. And every single time I critique Do The Right Thing, which apparently the masses on the forums profess as a brilliant film, no one will defend the film, but simply say in one conveniant line: "You dont know what the hell your talking about. Do the Right Thing is brilliant."

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"All the confusion of my life... has been a reflection of myself! Myself as I am, not as I'd like to be." - Guido, 8 1/2

Probably. Maybe it's not just prejudices, but very powerful filmmaking about any kind of harsh subject matter - a sort of, "Wow, I had no idea that films could be like that". Requiem For A Dream is another film that everyones raves about and is often compared to American History X. You get jokes and stuff all over the internet now about every teenager having Requiem For A Dream and American History X in their top ten (as well as Scarface, Batman Begins, Donnie Darko, Fight Club, etc etc - you know, "teen movies"). It's one of the reasons why I was put off seeing AHX for a while (though I think I'll give it a go anyway).

Anyway, I've yet to see a truly great film about racism. I found Do The Right Thing underwhelming and it's style irritating, as well as having an overhyped climax which isn't really that powerful (to me, anyway). As for Crash...well, we all know what everyone's problems with that are by now...

The reason that I like Do the Right Thing is the reason that I like Crash. I think they both present a very realistic view of race relations and the social class system in the US. The old melting pot theory doesn't seem to be working. I think what Haggis says about his movie is what make both it and Spike Lee's movie so interesting to me.

"as Americans we just love to define people, we love to say 'good person, bad person' and we make that decision instantly.
And usually it's by the shape of their eyebrows, the colour of their skin, the kind of clothes they wear, something incredibly superficial."
He added that in the film he allowed "nice people" to say "truths which are ugly, ugly truths" and that "you may not like it, it's not politically correct".
"Unless you explore these issues we can't deal with them," he said.

The breaking down of stereotypes and judging people by their race still has a long way to go in the US. Movies like Crash and Do the Right Thing help by opening a dialog on a difficult subject.

I couldn't agree with you more, with not only what you said about powerful film making and teens but also with you opinion of Do The Right Thing.

I liked Crash, not because it deals with prejudice, but because it shows people's lives interconnecting. Perhaps it is a bit contrived, but it is still quite impressive on the first viewing. I also thought that although it dealt with prejudice, it wasn't anything as crass as saying 'racism is bad'. It was more that it showed that people's prejudices shape them as people, but are not the be all and end all of their characters.

American History X I like, but also agree that it is massively overrated. Minor spoilers here (but if you haven't seen it, what are you doing on this thread? ): I think part of the reason that it is rated so highly is that there is a perception, however unconscious, by some that including a scene of male rape makes a film somehow 'edgy' and 'brave'. See the similarly overrated Shawshank Redemption, Deliverance and Pulp Fiction (note: I said overrated, not bad).

I think young moviegoers are likely to attach themselves to any flick which get the gears rolling inside of their heads. I dont think the subjects matter of prejeduce has anything to do with it.

As kids grow, they get more impressionable. Teenagers seem to be aching for some kind of ethos to grab onto; some kind of philospohy to adopt because they can feel the void growing within them. So a good film comes along and happens to be carrying exactly what the young people are looking for: something to believe in. Even if that belief fizzles out and looses its hold on the individual, the film will remain high in their opinions because of the effect it had on them. This is a generational constant, i believe.

Can a movie depicting prejudice, ever be overrated?

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Health is the greatest gift, contentment the greatest wealth, faithfulness the best relationship.
Buddha

Yes.

Many white Americans are still a little racist, but hate that part of themselves. Everyone recognizes racism is bad, and many Americans see these racist characters and recognize in them a part of themselves they hate. This is the reason movies tackling racism are overrated, because of the guilt factor.

That being said, if you check my favorite movies list you will see American History X is one of my favorites. I agree with Yoda that it is overrated, but I still love it.

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"What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present." - T.S. Eliot

Many white Americans are still a little racist on an individual level. Ladies may clutch their bags and secure the top button of their blouse when a latino man walks by. However, the weight of modern racism is held by the poor. In neglect, and in leaving little room for improvement is how the real monster of racism wreaks havoc.

Oh yeah, and in foreign policy.

Excuse me for going off topic.

American History X made my stomach drop. The brutality of the crimes in that film are a shocking metaphor on the subject of race relations in America. However, what made the film so good in my eyes was the theme of not being able to escape the crimes one has committed. It makes the point that no matter how pure a man thinks he is, it doesn't mean he'll get away with murder, and the last scene pounds that message deep into your head. American History X offers the imagery for sheer hatred, the urge to kill and the desire to see one's enemy shamed in death-- and it doesn't forget the consequences.

Anyhow, whether or not a movie tackles racism shouldn't be the deciding factor in what makes a movie overrated. Ultimately, each person has his/her opinion of each film. Maybe AHX was good and Crash wasn't, maybe vice versa. To each his own.

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"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing."

Macbeth