The MoFo Top 100 Musicals Countdown

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RIP www.moviejustice.com 2002-2010
You are aware that the Pineapple breezes lyrics are the original lyrics from the Broadway show?
Nope. Not all. I'm looking at it through the lens of film, so I haven't seen the Broadway show, but if the decision, when the 1961 film was made, was to change those lyrics, then it certainly is far better. So when I evaluate a film... I'm generally looking at it as a film and not basing it or really comparing it to the source material be it Broadway, theatre, short stories, novels, memoirs, etc... at least not so far as in evaluating its quality or what makes it a good or bad film, etc. For example the Steinbeck novel East of Eden had a million things that the film left out, but the film is an A+ masterpiece.
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RIP www.moviejustice.com 2002-2010
Against my better judgment, I attempted once again to watch The Prince of Egypt and once again couldn’t finish it. I got as far as Moses talking to God through the burning bush and then I gave up.

I’m not sure what the deal is with other atheists that supposedly love this movie. I can only assume that those people were raised with religion - and so the story is familiar and perhaps comforting to them. However, I was raised in a secular household and all this thing did was annoy me. Between the songs and the religious content this was an absolute no go for me.

This is an interesting take. Now, I have no interest in The Prince of Egypt, because the animation looks bland to me from pictures I've seen and I just haven't taken the time to go back to it, as it was released when I was in high school, a time in which I was far more interested in John Wayne and Bogart than staying caught up on the latest animated film.

But your take of being raised in a secular household and the religious content make it a no go... is interesting.

I look at film in terms of quality. That's regardless of whether or not I have any religious or cultural connection to them.

So Criterion Channel last month had a feature of films from Egyptian director Youssef Chahine in which I watched The Devil of the Desert, Cairo Station, and Saladin the Victorious and each were absolutely spectacular. I also enjoyed a couple of modern Iranian films, A Taste of Cherry and A Separation - all despite having no personal connection to Islam nor being raised in an Muslim household.

The same goes with the Nordic Viking Norse religion. I wasn't raised in a Viking household, but I love the Kirk Douglas film The Vikings, saw brilliance in Eggers the Northman, and was floored by Vahalla Rising. I even remember seeing The Long Ships on cable tv as a child and enjoying it. And one of my guilty pleasures is the TV show "The Vikings" and I enjoyed all this material without saying one single prayer to Odin nor living my life with aspirations of a glorious death that will one day send me off to the fields and mead halls of Vahalla!

I enjoyed The River (1951) despite being not raised in a Hindu household and while I was partially raised in a Irish Catholic household (my mom's side - grandparents), I am definitely not a practicing Catholic, but I still love Black Narcissus.

And don't get me started on Japanese cinema. Oh and I saw this one great film too, years and years ago called Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter which is about Buddhism or at least a Buddhist monk and I am not Buddhist either!

I am a non-denominational Christian. And I will tell you that The Passion of the Christ was a horrible movie and I'm not too fond of Jesus Christ Superstar either... largely because both are just not great films in my mind, I don't give a hoot and holler at all that they're based on Jesus.

So if you haven't gotten the point yet, to critique a film or to say you don't like a film for your own personal reasons - religious or otherwise... cool, I don't really get the logic behind it, but OK. However, to borderline criticize other people for liking a film on the basis that is religious or features religion that is not their own, as in when you comment "I’m not sure what the deal is with other atheists that supposedly love this movie" is just a bit flippant at best and intolerant and judgmental at worst.

Would you be OK with atheist liking The Ten Commandments, Ben Hur, or even Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ or even Pasolini's The Gospel According to St. Mathew? What about films like Becket or The Passion of Joan of Arc which deal with major historical figures to Christian iconography? Can you see why atheists might like a great film because they are... well, great films? Geesh!


As a side note however: I will say I draw the line at large weddings and the Italian mafia. I was raised in tiny family... didn't really go to large weddings and 90 percent of my heritage is Irish, Scotch-Irish, and English. Zero Italian. So growing up in my household, we didn't really do Mafia hits or conduct business in running alcohol, playing the numbers, etc. So, I really do not understand why so many non-Italians, people with small families, and people not in the Mafia or people not having conducted hits or ordered hits can like The Godfather so much. Really strange to me.





86
3lists42points
Into the Woods
Director

Rob Marshall, 2014

Starring

Anna Kendrick, Meryl Streep, James Corden, Emily Blunt







85
3lists42points
Gigi
Director

Vincente Minnelli, 1958

Starring

Leslie Caron, Maurice Chevalier, Louis Jourdan, Hermione Gingold





RIP www.moviejustice.com 2002-2010
Okay, I just wanted to make sure you knew those were the original lyrics because your post implied you didn't. That's all,
Thank you, yeah I had no clue those were the original lyrics to the Broadway show. Crazy because the 1961 film's seem so much stronger and powerful.



Haven't seen either of today's entries. Gigi has been on my radar on the strength of it being a Best Picture winner, and me trying to catch up with all of those... but it is one of about only a dozen I haven't seen.


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Thank you, yeah I had no clue those were the original lyrics to the Broadway show. Crazy because the 1961 film's seem so much stronger and powerful.
The '61 film is excellent but there were a lot of changes made from the original Broadway libretto including lyrics and placement of scenes in the story. For example, "Gee Officer Krupke" takes place after the rumble in the original show but Ernest Lehman, Robert Wise, and Jerome Robbins moved the number to before the rumble because they wanted Russ Tamblyn in the number.



Against my better judgment, I attempted once again to watch The Prince of Egypt and once again couldn’t finish it. I got as far as Moses talking to God through the burning bush and then I gave up.

I’m not sure what the deal is with other atheists that supposedly love this movie. I can only assume that those people were raised with religion - and so the story is familiar and perhaps comforting to them. However, I was raised in a secular household and all this thing did was annoy me. Between the songs and the religious content this was an absolute no go for me.
I also find this averse reaction quite interesting. Is this something limited to films based in stories from the Bible book, or to any film based on any fantasy book?



Trouble with a capital "T"
I rewatched GiGi only three weeks ago and wrote this:
Gigi (1958)
Dir. Vincent Minnelli

If Gigi had been a French language film directed by a renowned French director, it would probably be considered one of the great French comedies of all time...But it's not a French film, it's a Hollywood movie shot in Paris. Gigi won 9 Oscars and I think I know why...it feels like a French film in it's risque story that pushed the boundaries under the Production Code. Had this been a typical Hollywood musical it would've been sanitized and had golly-gee-whiz characters with hi-jinks galore. But Gigi isn't that type of film, it's very French being based on the novel by French author Collette. It's a story of a young woman being trained by her wealthy aunt to be a courtesan.

What didn't sit well with me and confused me too, was the perceived age of Gigi (Leslie Caron). When we meet Gigi she's dressed in what I took to be a young school girl's type clothing. She's described as not having a figure yet and isn't old enough to drink champagne. All of that seemed to be suggesting a girl of 12 or 13 years old, which I found uncomfortable and certainly not charming or funny. I did find the personality of Gigi to be charming enough. Maybe I'm wrong about her intended age? As later we see her dressed up in a fancy gown and she looks to be a young adult woman.

I didn't care for Louis Jordan, he was a bit dull for a romantic lead, a rather boring actor in my book. Maurice Chevalier he's fine in small doses, but like Jimmy Durante too much of his character becomes an annoyance. I really dislike his singing & hamming smile to the camera. Hermione Gingold on the other hand was my favorite, not surprising I usually like her.


The plus side of Gigi is Vincent Minnelli's eye for art inspired sets, gosh the film looks beautiful! A big plus is filming on location in Paris with the cast and not just a second camera crew. We even see the inside of the famous Maxine's. The costumes are stunning.

If they had made it clear that Gigi wasn't a child but a young adult woman capable of making her own decisions...and if they replaced wooden Louis Jordan with a more charming actor and if they cut most of Maurice Chevalier scenes then I might have liked this more.



I also find this averse reaction quite interesting. Is this something limited to films based in stories from the Bible book, or to any film based on any fantasy book?
I’m definitely not a fan of heavy fantasy in general, though usually I find it more forgivable when animated, but I don’t think it’s just an issue with it being a Bible story either. When I was preparing for the countdown, I actually watched DreamWorks’s take on the story of Joseph - or rather rewatched it - and thought it was fine. Not sure what exactly the problem was here but something about Prince of Egypt just rubs me the wrong way.



Joseph: King of Dreams
(Rob Deluca and Robert C. Ramirez, 2000)

I was rummaging through my animation collection looking for non-Disney musicals and stumbled across this - which I'd forgotten even existed at all, let alone existed in my own collection - and decided to give it a shot.

Despite being an atheist who was raised in a secular household, I've long had a soft spot for this classic biblical tale of the golden child of a shit father whose brothers finally reach their breaking point and rid themselves of his entitled ass. And this Dreamworks take on the story is about what you'd expect. The animation style is the same as what we saw in the studio's other films like The Prince of Egypt and Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas, the songs are not memorable but not irritating either, and the voice cast (including Ben Affleck and Mark Hamill) do a fine job.

And "fine" about sums this movie up in general. It's not bad. It's not great. It's just fine. I'll give it a little extra credit for being of decent quality despite being a direct to video release, though it definitely won't get my vote.




I had to check if I've seen that version of Into the Woods--my wife is a big Sondheim fan and I've definitely seen a filming of the show--but it looks like I haven't. I imagine I'll to Gigi someday but I haven't yet.



Against my better judgment, I attempted once again to watch The Prince of Egypt and once again couldn’t finish it. I got as far as Moses talking to God through the burning bush and then I gave up.

I’m not sure what the deal is with other atheists that supposedly love this movie. I can only assume that those people were raised with religion - and so the story is familiar and perhaps comforting to them. However, I was raised in a secular household and all this thing did was annoy me. Between the songs and the religious content this was an absolute no go for me.
None of the friends I was thinking of were raised that way, no. And even as a religious person I don't find the story comforting at all. It's probably one of the least comforting of the most common Biblical stories, and that was a source of criticism (and, in more thoughtful cases, praise) at the time, too: that it's not your typical, inoffensive family film. It deals with some really serious stuff.

Generally, irreligious people love it because it's still a good story, the animation is gorgeous (and not just in the boring technically impressive sense, but in the sense of having genuine artistry and thoughtful cinematography) and the music is top-notch, which is to be expected with the likes of Schwartz and Zimmer. It sounds like you may have gotten through maybe just the opening number. I dunno if you'd have liked the rest of it or not.

I don't really mind if someone doesn't like it, but I can't really figure out from this post what it was. Did you think the music was bad? How did it manage to "annoy"? Et cetera. I don't generally litigate conclusions because there's no accounting for taste, but I do like to understand how those conclusions are reached.



Gigi and Into the Woods, huh? Haven't seen Gigi. Into the Woods was a pretty good movie, IMO, but I really only saw it to get out of the house. Decent story, good direction, great acting, decent music.



It sounds like you may have gotten through maybe just the opening number. I dunno if you'd have liked the rest of it or not.
Not sure when you last watched this movie, but the burning bush sequence is about 45 minutes in - so well past the opening number.

The movie looks good, but it didn’t strike me as being anything special in terms of the artwork. To me it looks just like Sinbad or Spirit or any of the other 2-D DreamWorks flicks. I didn’t like the songs at all and they felt too frequent to me. I didn’t like Moses as a character - I realize he does better himself but I already disliked him by the time that happened and was already annoyed by other aspects of the movie so his growth didn’t change my opinion.

I think in the end this movie just has too much going against it to work from my personal tastes - fantasy, religion, and just the general dislike that I have for musicals.

Anyway, as for today’s movies, I haven’t seen either of them.



So if you haven't gotten the point yet, to critique a film or to say you don't like a film for your own personal reasons - religious or otherwise... cool, I don't really get the logic behind it, but OK. However, to borderline criticize other people for liking a film on the basis that is religious or features religion that is not their own, as in when you comment "I’m not sure what the deal is with other atheists that supposedly love this movie" is just a bit flippant at best and intolerant and judgmental at worst.
I’m not judging anyone for liking this movie. I don’t give a flying crap what people like or don’t like. I was simply stating that I don’t understand what it is that other atheists love about it and offered a possible explanation since I know that a lot of atheists are formerly very religious people. Don’t put words in my mouth.



The trick is not minding
I feel like as host I should remain neutral but... I really, really disliked Gigi aka Grooming: The Musical.
I watched it earlier this year and didn’t like it from the moment he started singing “Thank god for little girls.”
It’s just a little creepy.

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