The MoFo Top 100 Musicals Countdown

Thanks. The man came up at #4... and 5th here tonight. Not bad at all...

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Glad to see Willy Wonka show up, although it was never really a question of if it would show up, but where. I had Willy Wonka at number 18 on my ballot. I love its creativity, the world Roald Dahl creates and the genius of trying to adapt his books to maintain the spirit and atmosphere of them. Gene Wilder gives a unique and madcap performance that's just iconic and walks that boundary between going too-far and being too eerie, too disturbing, and too shocking for a mainstream "kids" musicals without quite crossing that line. The Tim Burton film, while decent on its own, pales in comparison to the original. Also it's a film that has some great messaging without ever becoming too preachy and some great thematical elements to it with a strong moral core and sadly it's the complete antithesis to where a lot films these days... especially some of the huge Disney blockbusters like the Frozen series and such are headed.

I love Willy Wonka and while it wasn't on my top 10, unlike some of the other entries in the MoFo top 10, I can't argue against Willy Wonka being included among the best.

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What's so hilarious about that is that unlike "Family Guy" where they would just do a quick cut away and it'd be done in under five seconds, "The Simpsons" does an entire and well done two minute sequence, which for a cartoon is kind of unheard of, but that works so well.

My least favorite part of Muppet Treasure Island is how the best part is the very first scene. Shiver My Timbers is awesome and then the rest of it isn't as good. It's still a fine movie of course. It just isn't as good the rest of the way.

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He hid in the forest, read books with great zeal
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Willy Wonka is very good, but it didn't make my ballot. It's also been years since I've seen it.

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I had Wonka at 10! A very fun film!

Willy Wonka was not on my list, though it might be if I sat down again having more reflection time.

For me, it was one of those movies that I watched a lot growing up and it sat right at that sweet spot between something I found interesting and something I found upsetting. Wilder is great in it, though I think I can see that better now as an adult.

Some of my ballot is comprised of films that I don't remember well, but rather how I remember my feeling for them. I know I saw Willy Wonka several times as a kid, but I don't remember loving it.

Willy Wonka is my #7! I understand how polarizing it can be, since 4 of the songs are from the Oompa Loompas and no one likes Cheer Up Charlie.


But the rest of the songs are solid gold, and Gene Wilder masterfully balances genius, sensitivity, and madness.


And I actually liked both remakes, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and Wonka. Neither are list worthy, but they're all very enjoyable, each in their own way.

I was struggling to recall what people meant by the second remake. I had already scrubbed the existence of Wonka from my mind, and it's more of a prequel than a remake AFAIK (never seen).

I didn't actually like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Granted I watched Burton's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and read the book prior to watching Willy Wonka, so I am sure that has something to do with it. Plus the only times I've liked Gene Wilder are when he's collaborated with Mel Brooks. Otherwise I don't really like him.

I enjoyed Tim Burton's version of the story, to an extent. It's far from perfect itself, although it has some enjoyable scenes. Danny Elfman's music and the pop culture references are the shiny spots.

I've also never been the target demographic, vis I was 16 or 17 when Burton's film came out, and the book was written for 10-year olds, so it wasn't geared for me in the first place.

Willy Wonka is a lot of fun; very colorful and entertaining. But Gene Wilder, man. So much fun to watch this performance that walks a fine line between charming and bizarre. It's really unique. It's not a musical I watch often, but when I do, I thoroughly enjoy it. I had it at #20.


Here's where I stand...

SEEN: 35/96
MY BALLOT: 17/25

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5. Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (1971) - And so Charlie gets stiffed big time in the title stakes as the Hollywood suits get together and declare "the audience doesn't give a hoot about Charlie and won't come if we don't mention Willy Wonka!" That was the least of Roald Dahl's concerns, but it turned into a classic regardless. Of course I grew up loving Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory, but have to admit it's been an age since I actually sat down and watched it from start to finish (I haven't seen the remake or prequel either.) I've seen parts of it so many times in passing though that I'm still very familiar with all of it - what a legend Gene Wilder was. Always Wonka in my eyes. After having said all of that though, this movie has slid down my rankings over the years when it comes to musicals I currently enjoy. That's not me casting aspersions - it's a truly great and beautiful movie - it's just me admitting that it's not a movie I really watch anymore. As such it didn't manage to make my ballot. I have fond memories of it.

Seen : 66/96

My #20 (and where the hell was it? Is it that unpopular?) was Sweet Charity - nearly every song in it a cultural touchstone.



Whether it's "Big Spender" in the club, watching Shirley MacLaine go nuts in a rich guy's pad singing "If My Friends Could See Me Now" or Sammy Davis Jr. getting down as a religious cult leader belting out "The Rhythm of Life", this is packed with memorable moments that are all in tune with each other. Directed by Bob Fosse and based on a play that in turn was based on Federico Fellini's Nights of Cabiria, it has talent and inspiration in spades. This really needs to develop a bit more of a cult following - critics have reversed course after it recieved unfavourable reviews when it came out, and now see it in a different light. Perhaps that initial mixed reception is what has it struggling to be remembered today, but those who haven't seen it should at least give it a go. I really like it a lot.

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I love Mamma Mia!. It was on the lower part of my list, but it doesn't seem to get a lot of love, so I'm not surprised that it didn't make the countdown.

Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again was pretty good, but it wasn't as good as the first movie.

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OPEN FLOOR.

Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is so much fun to watch. The songs are great, the story is fun, and Gene Wilder is amazing as Willy Wonka. (He was born to play Willy Wonka, just like Robert Preston was born to play Professor Harold Hill in The Music Man.) It was #8 on my list.

I didn't like the remake with Johnny Depp. I tried rewatching it for this countdown to see if it was better than I remembered it, but it was just as bad as the first time I saw it.

I watched the prequel Wonka with Timothée Chalamet for this countdown, and I liked it, but not enough to consider it for my list.


My list so far:
2. The Music Man (1962)
5. Oklahoma! (1955)
8. Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (1971)
9. 1776 (1972)
12. The Greatest Showman (2017)
13. My Fair Lady (1964)
15. Les Misérables (2012)
16. Oliver! (1968)
17. Anastasia (1997)
18. Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)
22. Mary Poppins (1964)
24. Fiddler on the Roof (1971)
25. Frozen (2013)

And in a fun coincidence, I'm watching Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory on TV right now. I was flipping channels a little over an hour ago, and it was on TBS.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I use Wonka's flute tone, (the one he uses to call the Oompa Loompas), as the notification tone for my security cameras, so every time someone walks past one of my cameras, I hear that tone.

I really don't want to drag this out in this thread, but I'm seeing that this is going to take a lot more work than our back-and-forth has already entailed.

This. Is. Not. News. I have never once disputed that.

The criticism here is very simple:
If we're concerned about Y's well-being,
because Z might kill and eat them,
then why aren't we concerned about X's well-being,
because Y might kill and eat them?

This is clearly a double standard, and I think it's a complete cop-out to argue that a character cannot be morally judged by virtue of their screentime, let alone the writing which raised the question in the first place.

The Lion King could just as easily have been about a kingdom of animals in the Savannah that's functionally a retelling of Hamlet, WITHOUT Mufasa trying to justify the way of things, or without portraying Timon as visibly uncomfortable with Simba eating certain animals, but not others.

These are value judgments, and by presenting those conclusions to the viewer, it raises questions of whether those conclusions are shared by the animals which naturally flee from them.

You know, Thanos did not exactly win me over with his "eradicate half of all life" plan for the sake of "keeping balance".

Would it shock you to learn that I don't buy that argument from hunters in real life either?

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I had Willy Wonka at #16 but having just finished rewatching it should have been much higher. That makes 18 from ballot.