Obama!!!

Yes, and I'm not denying that Saddam rewarded Palestinian families of suicide bombers. I remember that story very well. And regardless where your sympathies in the Israel - Palestine conflict lie, suicide bombings targeting civilians are inexcusable, although not completely impossible to understand. Furthermore, a lot of Saddam's deeds are school book examples of acts of terror, no debate about that. My somewhat philosophical question though is about why some things are terrorism when one part commits them but not when another part does.

We're talking apples and oranges because the US in the war on terror has decided to redefine some apples to be oranges instead.

Yes, I would certainly say that paying suicide bombers to attack targets that will undoubtedly cause civilian casualties could be labelled as "aiding terrorism". But I would say that supporting an army carrying out heavy military operations on illegally occupied Palestinian grounds and that will undoubtedly cause civilian casualties also could be defined as "aiding terrorism". And, as you know, the US has always supported Israel in nearly any way no matter how absurd and bloody the Israeli oppression of the Palestines has been.

My guess is that you think that the Israeli army is targeting terrorists while the Palestinians are targeting civilians. Still, Palestinian civilians die every time the Israeli army strikes, no matter how hard they're targeting terrorists. No matter how you turn this thing around the result is always the same: more Palestinian civilians than Israeli civilians have died in this conflict.

I think the answer to who is a terrorist and who is not according to USA's definition is completely arbitrary. A terrorist is a terrorist because the US say he or she is a terrorist. What the US is doing is not terrorism, it's fighting a war.

Well, my argument is this: if you compare acts done in the past that the World community has agreed to label crimes against humanity or acts of terror and compare them to some of the things done by the US the pattern is very clear; some people have been hung or sent to prison for life for things that the prosecutors have not even begun to question when US has done them.

My argument is that the "War on Terror" becomes a farce when it's being fought by an nation that supported the apartheid regime in South Africa and had Nelson Mandela on its black list of terrorists, supported Contras and other terrorizing organisations and right wing juntas in South- and Central America and to this day continues to support extremely undemocratic and oppressing regimes around the world.

And, to bring this thing back on topic, that's why I like Obama because my impression is that he's showed some intentions to end this hypocrisy.

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

They shouldn't have given him the Nobel Peace Prize. That is wrong..

Well he's learning something about 'peace' now!!
As I see the ever tolerant and grounded mob of that religion of peace is burning effigies of Obama in Afghanistan at the moment, as they like to do (in a peaceful way though, I'm sure he'll agree).

All because one copyof the Quran got a little bit scorched.... during a war!
Blimey! Touchy much?

This shut up if you disagree with me attitude is getting quite a bit mundane. America does not work that way, it works just the opposite no matter what one's ideals are. We are a nation of checks and balances. Yes I know Obama is not the first to do these types of things, do I need to make a list? If the president could be as tough on our ememies as he is with his own people it might seem like he had a pair.

Erm... What? That's exactly how America works.

Er, since when? People may say it occasionally, but the preference is clearly towards debate; even if that debate is sometimes ugly. Besides, the second part of the bit you quoted ("...no matter what one's ideals are") suggests that he's talking about how it actually works, and not how people try to make it work sometimes.

And not to get overly confrontational here, but the time zone in your profile suggests you don't even live in America. If that's correct, I don't know why you'd feel too comfortable contradicting an American citizen about the tenor of political debate here. I think there are plenty of things we can know about other places without living there, but I don't think this is one of them.

Whoa, hold the phone! Suicide bombers get paid to blow themselves up??? Is that minimum wage or salary? I guess if you have the technical know-how to make your own bomb, that would qualify as a salary job, with a year-end bonus if business is good. What are the other fringe benefits? What about holidays and vacation time? Will the company match your deposit in a 401K? Do they provide paid maternity leave? Is there a union for suicide bombers, and do they have problems with scabs taking their jobs when they strike for higher wages? How about illegal aliens--do they take jobs away from native suicide bombers by working cheaper? Is a pre-employment physical exam required for new-hires? Gee, I'll bet the failure rate for on-the-job drug tests is astronomical!

I always wondered how much one would have to drink before becoming a suicide bomber sounds like a good idea. Now I wonder how much pay one has to be offered before he signs up for that job. Would you do it for less than $1 million? I'm half past 66, so I probably don't have as much time left as say your average 17-35-year-old would if they didn't rent out as a Roman candle. But I don't think I would trade my remaining years for a measly million--it would have to get up to the Super Lottery range of $250 million or more. Then maybe I can sub-contract the job to a entry-level new-hire for a measly $500,000. COD, of course.

I can just hear the HR person in charge of hiring down at Bombs-R-Us: "OK, $350 million is my last offer, and you start this afternoon. But I'm gonna have to give you a post-dated check until I can move some money into that account next week."

What's really sad are the temporary workers who get hired on street corners for small cash payments and no tax records. And no medical coverage or any provision for their future.

Your mouth + your brain = obnoxious moron

Not in my lifetime. I don't think most folks will lift their butts off the couch and turn off the TV. But polarization and demonizing the opposition is always foolish and often dangerous. What the US political system has done best all through its history is compromise.

Man do I agree with you!

LOL.

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Bleacheddecay

If the remote is across the room, then yes I believe you might have to.

OMG! Not one, but THREE Republicans won in Virginia! LOL! I love how people act shocked by that, as if when Obama won that no Republican would ever win again, even in a historically conservative region. The Democrats are worried that 2010 will be like '94, and the Republicans will be the "moral majority" again, and they'll fight that big, bad liberal like in the 90's. I say, so what? I think it's mutually beneficial for Obama and the Republicans, now they'll both have a foil to blame all our problems on and come off as idealistic crusaders. Newt Gingrich was probably the best thing to happen to Bill Clinton, and Bill Clinton was probably the best thing to happen to Newt Gingrich, because one justifies the other.

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...uh the post is up there...

Well then. Lets see what Obama says now.
What platitudes he spews out about the 'Religion of Peace' as American soldiers get murdered in their own base, in their own country, by one of their (supposedly) own.

Local apologist Iman says treasonous, betraying, gun rampaging Islamist murderer was 'very devout' but not 'extreme'.
The day a TRULY devout follower of an utterly unchanged, 1400 year old, extremist ideology is anything but extreme is the day I'd trust such a devout follower to watch my back with a gun in his hand...

The West is at war, The West is at war in its own streets against its own supposed citizens. But even after all these endless attacks in our countries by our own people or residents...we still have not got the balls to say the truth.
We are at war with radical global Islam, and many of the most effective enemy are living right next to us.

Even now UK news is shying away from who this guy is, what his devout following was, and thus what his one and only motive was!
He was already on probation for proselytizing!


Civil war?? You've got civil war! You've had it for at least the last 8 years.

My thoughts with all those American families and to America itself...while America lasts that is.

And indeed here is Obama making a statement about the shootings...But be prepared...you have to wait a long time before he actually bothers to deem it important enough to even mention!!!!
He even has a good laugh and smile before he gets to this trivial news!!!

Watch your president after the worst act of war on the largest army base in American history. give a "Shout-Out" before he bothers to make comments on the shooting.



Don't expect much action there folks.

Well, I can certainly feel the passion you have about this subject, I can understand since most Americans felt it after 9/11. As an Atheist, I've been roped into these debates about the "peaceful" nature of Religion, my problem is that many will focus on the more obvious cases, i.e. 9/11 or the Crusades, while diminishing stand-alone radicals. The fact is that, it's much easier to get a visceral anti-religious response when a Muslim extremist acts out in such a large scale of violence, while there are literally hundreds of cases of abortion bombings, violence against homosexuals, and numerous individuals that use their beliefs as a means to justify their own prejudices and political views. Now, of course the case will be made that compared to these single events they are a drop in a bucket, and yes they are, but collectively the casualties begin to accumulate in the name of the Christian God, which is always portrayed as far more "Peace-loving" than his counterparts. I don't make the argument that Religion causes violence, because it's too much like the "video games causes violent behavior" argument, as if violence is a separate force from human nature. The religious texts are written obtusely, so that one can divine their own meaning, or justifications. For those seeking enlightenment, God is a teacher, to a warrior, God is an avenging angel. I think that any work that uses the precondition that it is above scrutiny, and that places obedience as it's highest virtue is completely unhealthy and perverted, most religions seem to embrace such ideas at differing degrees. To me, this was a man who hid behind vague slogans to justify his own irrational, brutal actions, which is what all extremists do.

I do think that there was a bit of an over-sensitivity on the part of the media to not factor his Arab heritage, which seemed absurd.

Now, to the McCarthy-esque grandstanding that some like to put on; you can't complain about an aggressor that places little value on life, is intolerant of others, and acts out in displays of violence, when all you contribute to a conversation is labeling an entire group as "savages, untrustworthy, and to be dealt with as such."

You're right, The President should be more respectful when discussing the tragic loss of America's men and women.



Bush's reaction to 9/11 was so much more poignant too.

Not at all. In fact you dig yourself into a stupid racial hole in your desire to apologise for Islam.
So you're very happy to have his RACE mentioned...but them skip around his religion?
So you're happy to condemn his Arabic race...but not happy to connect Islam to this?

You mentioned them shying away from his Arab 'heritage!???
What the hell has him being an Arab (and actually he was American born) got to do with it?
His RACE has nothing to do with it at all. His RELIGION does.

Face it he could be the most Arab guy in the world, but if he had also been a Buddhist, Christian, Pagan or even Scientologist (let alone a freakin Atheist!) he would not have done this.
His 'Arab Heritage' is nothing to do with anything. He did not murder his own men because he was an Arab..he murdered them because his was a Muslim.

And I'm getting sick to death of this apologist, fawning, PC mantra (that actually turns into racism people are so desperate not to mention ISLAM) being spewed out every time.
Even now, as they swill yet more American blood spilt on American soil away people are still sticking their heads in the sand!

How many more MUSLIMS...explicitly MUSLIMS...must attack you before you wake up?

Sorry, but I'm an Atheist too but even I know that quite frankly, despite the crap still in Christianity, that there is simply no comparison when comparing to Islam.
In fact it's ****ing stupidity to even try and compare them...especially as you sit there in Western/Christian/Christian-Secularist countries and all the freedoms they give you.

Christianity went through a reformation. For all it's backwards ******** it's far more compatible with modern living than Islam..which has remained utterly unchanged in any way for 1400 years!

So let's stop this ********! As quite frankly its becoming a disgrace.


Irony is...While all you so called 'liberals' like Golgot throw racist jibes around at people like me, people like me are the ONLY ones not caring, let alone blaming, anyone's RACE.
It seems the racism actually comes from those so stupidly earnest to avoid blaming Islam.
You have to laugh.

When the identity of the suspect was released, all we had was a Middle Eastern name, and as you said his race is not entirely indicative of his religious affiliation. Obviously, many, including myself suspected as much, but it was not yet know exactly whether he was a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or a secular political radical. So in a way the PC reaction was a little over done, but the fact is that there is always a danger of scapegoating all Arabs as "radicals," who may not even worship or assign themselves to an extremist ideology. I admit, watching the news it can be exceedingly easy to form broad opinions about some groups of people.

You see, your fiery rhetoric, when not clearly stated, could sound like a calm to arms, or a "final solution" of sorts, I'm not saying that's what it is, but you of all people must understand the danger of promoting a campaign of distrust toward an entire group. You see, not everyone's smart enough to realize that you shouldn't respond to a tragedy by victimizing individuals that seemingly have no part in it, or that there's a difference between being an Arab, and being a Muslim.

As far as being an "apologist," I apologize for no religion. I personally see religion as a perverted means to control emotionally weak, and intellectually frail individuals. It was old world politics, for people that didn't understand the natural forces at work around them.

I think anyone, be they Christian, Jew, Hindu, or Muslim that would be willing to murder, or commit suicide because someone told them that the invisible man in the sky wants them to is completely f&*#ing insane, and beyond hope.

I clearly said that no modern Christian, or other variant religion, has perpetrated violence on a scale as large as Radical Islamic fundamentalists, and I was simply saying that we shouldn't just shrug our shoulders to other types of radicalism even if they are less frequent or large by comparison, simply because one is currently more prevalent.

I do agree that Christianity, for the most part went through a renewal of sorts, and that Islam is in bad need of one as well. The fact is, both religious texts smack of their age, and of the human condition. They reward obedience and placing belief in intangible concepts, as well as the one's "interpreting" them, and punish skepticism, and analytical thinking. The difference is that Western society progressed to such an extent that we don't place the church officials on such a high pedestal anymore, and hence began fertilizing our own personal morality, which is also flawed but is open to scrutiny. In short, we make our own answers to life's questions, we don't accept cheat sheets from frauds and false wizards.

Care to point out where I did that?

I've disagreed with your 'scorched earth' 'final solution' approach to Islam, and I still do. I've pointed out the numerous factual errors you've made while in the middle of your frothing rants (is Obama still descended from slave-trading 'Arabic Africans' incidentally? You seemed so sure before). What I don't recall ever doing is calling you a racist.

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Virtual Reality chatter on a movie site? Got endless amounts of it here. Reviews over here

Yes he is.

But I'll simply let statistics and historical fact speak for me on all this.
Remember this the next time a 5th columnist from the fetid CAIR bleats on about persecution of Islamists in America;

People killed by radical Muslims on 9/11: 2,996

Muslim-Americans killed in the U.S. "in revenge": 1

Since 1972, on American soil, at the hands of Islamic radicals, 3,308 Americans have been killed in 65 separate attacks.




And this current act of murderous treason is not new as we know.


U.S. Soldier Hasan Akbar was charged in a grenade and gun attack that killed 2 fellow American soldiers and wounded 14 others in 2003 in a camp in Kuwait.


Semi Osman, Naval reservist and Ex-Army, arrested in 2002 and accused of "material support for terrorists." He pleaded guilty to a weapons violation and served his sentence.


Wassef Ali Hassoun, Army translator, faked his kidnapping in Iraq, went AWOL and is now on the NCIS Most Wanted List.


Ali Abdul Saoud Mohamed (the American) worked for the CIA, and US special forces, at different times during the 1980s and 1990s. In the same period, he also co-operated with Al-Qaeda. In October 2000, he pleaded guilty to five counts to kill nationals of the United States, to murder and kidnap and to destroy U.S. property.


American born Islamic convert Ryan G. Anderson of the 81st Regiment was taped providing tactical information on methods of killing US troops and tanks to al-Qaeda.
Om 2004 found guilty of five counts of attempting to aid and provide intelligence to the enemy.


In 2007 American soldier Hassan Abujihaad was arrested and charged with taking part in a conspiracy to kill American military personnel by giving suspected terrorists info on American ship movements in 2001.

Abujihaad’s Army roommate was Derrick Shareef, who was arrested in December 2006 for plotting to use grenades to attack an Illinois mall.


John Allen Williams (The Beltway Sniper) ex-Army sniper.
Praised 9/11, member of 'Nation of Islam'. His partner in crime had drawings describing the murders as part of a 'Jihad' struggle.


Jeffrey Leon Battle, Army reservist, sentenced to 18 years in prison after pleading guilty to sedition and conspiracy and levying war against The United States.



I guess they were all 'mad', 'picked on' and 'scared' as well, like how Maj. Nidal M. Hasan is being described by the apologist, cowardly, Press as they try to understand 'the motives' of this known Islamic radical, "Allah Akbar" shrieking, murderer.

Hell, lets take the words from Hasan's own cousin, who has been given leave to pollute countless American news channels about how 'picked on' his Jihadist cousin was, who it seems is another 'moderate' the American Press deem worthy of air time;

So there you go..If only he had murdered just 2 fellow soldiers all would be okay and understandable!


I leave the facts with you guys...and let you decide whether or not to keep those heads buried in the sand.