Robert Downey Jr cast as Doctor Doom

Tongo, you are nuts! Mads is never forgetable! I demand you go watch Jagten aka The Hunt or Druk aka Another Round. Even in Adam's Apples, he is not forgettable.

I have seen all his films.

Well, the whole current saga is all about multiverses and variants of the same character so I can imagine this will be a Tony Stark variant that went "evil" instead of "good". Storywise, I'm cautious but curious to see how they play that.

On the other hand, from a business/marketing perspective, I totally understand Marvel going that route after 1) the bind that the Jonathan Majors issue put them in, and 2) how spotty the performance of most MCU films have been after Endgame. Marvel is going with their most popular actor, the one that has anchored their whole franchise for the last 15 years, while RDJ is going with the franchise that pretty much revitalized or outright saved his career. It's easy to connect the dots.

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Anyway, I don't understand why people are either labeling RDJ as a sell-out for this. Is he doing it for the money? Of course, that's his job. That's pretty much the reason actors (and directors, and plumbers, and architects, and Uber drivers) do what they do. To get paid. And I also don't see why people are assuming that just because he's doing this he won't be able to do other stuff.

The story behind this is what I want to hear. How long? How much?

My guess is it has to be better than his original deal and that one was bonkers by all accounts.

I agree with you on everything except that "spotty performance" jab, which I think is just uncalled for.

I don't think he really needs the money. I honestly think that for all of these people who could easily never have to work again for the rest of their lives, the craftsmanship and the sense of accomplishment is what really motivates them. Otherwise, they could just happily retire and live like royalty, without a care in the world.

People are entitled to their opinions. Im just looking forward to everyone seeing what RDJ can do with this role, and the naysayers be blown away moreso.

Here's the thing, he's gonna have fun with this role. He eluded in an interview awhile back when asked if he would ever come back as Iron Man, and his response wasn't the usual one. "Don't you think though that people get bored seeing the same old thing. Wouldn't they want something new" not word per word, but 99% sure this has been in the works for awhile

Hes not a sellout because he already did, hes richer than the Monopoly Man. He's only going to take roles he wants to do, he doesn't have to do anything. Mads M. woulda been solid but RDJ will be able to grab more people's attention, focus on Doom because he's playing him, and yes bring in huge money.
2 years is a long wait, sigh

I know your reply was in jest, but I will answer it seriously, just to give others the context of the situation Marvel finds itself in.

The Infinity Saga featured 23 films released through 11 years. Of those 23 films, only one didn't double its budget, which was The Incredible Hulk (which is often seen as an odd duck or outlier within the franchise itself). It still made money, but it fell short of doubling the budget which is widely seen as the threshold to cover marketing, etc. All the other films either doubled their budgets, or in many cases, tripled or fourthupled, or however it can be said.

Of those 23 films, all have a Fresh RT score (above 60% critics approval) and all but three are Certified Fresh (above 75%). those are, again, The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, and Thor: The Dark World. Those three are still Fresh, just not Certified Fresh.

So these movies are bringing the money AND the critical acclaim, even including some Oscar reputation with Black Panther.

Now, the Multiverse Saga features 11 films so far released through 3.5 years. Of those 11 films, four haven't doubled its budget with one not even clearing it (Black Widow, Eternals, Quantumania, and The Marvels). First three made their money; just not enough to maybe cover the marketing. The last one didn't even do that. We could factor in the pandemic as well or the rush of 11 in 4 vs. 23 in 11, but those are two whole different stories.

Of those 11 films, all but two have a Fresh RT score. That means that you have the first two MCU films with "Rotten" RT scores (Eternals and Quantumania). Meanwhile, only 6 are Certified Fresh versus 3 that are "just Fresh".

So even though I don't think their situation warrants "mass corporate hysteria" (they're still making money, they're still generally well regarded), it's obvious that their standing and position is not as strong as it was during the peak of the Infinity Saga, and that's something that we can attribute to fatigue, to the pandemic, the overwhelm of films and shows, or the quality of the films itself... but it's a hole that I'm sure they wanted to plug better sooner than later.

Then you factor in the Jonathan Majors thing, where you start building this new saga with this actor and character full center, and then you have that rug swept from under you. It's understandable that they would be desperate. Personally, I think they could've recast the role, but I also understand their wariness to do so, considering how distinctive Majors and his performance was. I mean, this is not the same as Terrence Howard/Don Cheadle.

All that shit, like I said, just so everybody can understand why it kinda makes sense for them to go this way with RDJ.


I understand that, but they still want to make money. But beyond that, I think a role like Tony Stark/Iron Man, and how that film and character spawned this massive franchise that has basically changed the landscape of cinema, well, it carries that sense of craftsmanship and accomplishment, regardless of whether some people don't want to attribute it or not. If there's anybody that can say "I did this. I helped build this from the ground up" is Robert Downey, Jr. Maybe even more than Kevin Feige.

I like to add that I generally consider myself not a big MCU guy and I really don't think any of the MCU films are great (or bad). I always say they all fall in that "low ceiling/high floor" realm for me. However, I'm utterly fascinated by the whole impact of the franchise and the whole universe interconnectivity thing between multiple films and TV shows. I'm not saying it's good, but it's something I find extremely compelling to analyze and talk about.

That's it. I'll shut up now

The only thing I agree on about Mads vs RDJ, is Doctor Doom is eastern Europe and RDJ would have to fake the accent where Mads already has an accent when speaking. Of course, Mads has a Northern Europe instead of Eastern Europe.

Dude, seriously, you are SOOOO totally missing the forest for the trees. Like, 100%.

Let's try to put things in perspective, ok?

With the release of D&W, the MCU has officially crossed the $30 billion mark at the box-office. Do you realize how huge that is? It's not just a mind-bogglingly big number, it's ahead of any other film franchise EVER by about $20 billion or so.

If Marvel just stopped making movies right now, it is quite unlikely we would see another franchise catch up to them, box-office wise, any time in the foreseeable future.

And when well-intentioned folks like yourself compare the smaller MCU movies with the bigger ones, well, sure, it makes it seem like there's something "wrong", even though objectively speaking, it is still a way bigger success than any other film franchise ever made.

It wasn't hard for me to see, back in 2019, how the next few dozen MCU movies or so would, by necessity, have to be smaller. Like, maybe a lot smaller than the last couple of Avengers movies had been. Those are movies that made almost $5 billion just between the 2 of them. Put the 4 Avengers titles together, and we're talking almost $8 billion with just 4 movies. That's just staggering.

So it wasn't hard to predict - again, back in 2019 - that they would be making "smaller" movies for a while, or at least most of the movies they would make would have to be smaller and take on some less-known characters.

That's how you'd start building the anticipation for the eventual Avengers 5 or 6. It made absolutely no sense to rush into more Avengers movies without waiting a few years.

That calculation wasn't entirely wrong - but the pandemic substantially altered the picture, making it even harder for any movie, no matter the genre, to enjoy the same kind of success that it would have pre-pandemic.

And yet, even with the pandemic, you still had one of their most popular titles (SMNWH) make almost $2 billion by itself.

So where is all of this headed?

The MCU, quite simply, is the ceiling of what a film franchise can accomplish. It is the ceiling because there isn't another film franchise doing better numbers than they have been. Whether you personally like comic book movies or not, the public has rewarded them with more of their money than any other franchise, ever, in the history of cinema.

Now, we are headed into another upward cycle of more anticipation and bigger titles. We will have the first MCU Fantastic Four movie, then 2 more Avengers movies, another Spider-Man movie, and very likely a new X-Men movie quite soon. A "Young Avengers" movie is also a possibility.

There's a very good chance these movies will do quite well. And it's also very possible that in another 10 years, the MCU won't be a $30 billion franchise anymore - by then it will probably be a $40 billion franchise.

The "bump on the road" would have happened even without a pandemic, but it became a bit more noticeable because of the dual effect of the pandemic PLUS the Hollywood strikes of last year, which resulted in the delay of two MCU movies that were originally set for release this year.

Regardless, there is no reason to think the future of the MCU isn't a relatively bright one. It doesn't need to release 3 or 4 movies a year, and it will still likely continue to do relatively well. And almost certainly continue to be the #1 film franchise for the reminder of our lifetime.

So based on your statement, there are absolutely no "red flags" at all within the MCU camp regarding the performance of the latest films/saga because they have a big enough cushion...?

There are definitely "red flags" for the movie industry. That's a structural problem, though, which was caused by most of the studios rushing towards streaming. It happened at the worst possible time, too, because of the pandemic.

The underlying cause for a lot of it, probably, is that the studios are owned by those huge conglomerates that are constantly trying to appease Wall Street. And Wall Street hyperfocuses on short-term profitability, not the long-term game, necessarily.

So, yeah, those are concerns for the industry as a whole. The big IP is going to be fine, it's the smaller movies that people should be more concerned about.

They're trolling us. Somehow they're trolling us.

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Gotta love all the memes tho!

I saw some of the parts with Mads in Dr. Strange... and I completely forgot he was even in the film.

I think he was probably offered barrels of cash..
Plus Downey is almost 60 years old. He's going to eventually be limited in roles that he'll be offered.

oh wow he looks like facebook dad I love him

I think "A" is the best option, though they might change the college experiment to something else. I think at some point the mask will come off (just for the shock value alone) - not be stuck to his face - otherwise they would get just the voice of RDJ. I find it hard to imagine RDJ's voice coming out of Dr. Doom - I hope they'll modify it somehow.

I wonder if this other-universe version of Stark also lost his mother, and if he's going to try to save her soul.

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Boldly going.

Very good point - I also can't imagine Dr. Doom with RDJ's voice (unless you want yet another Doom who doesn't match the original character and just sucks).

He should have a deep, intimidating, arrogant, regal, commanding voice, with a slight eastern European accent, affected by his iron mask.

I believe it was Lee & Kirby who came up with the initial origin:
A. His face was terribly & permanently scarred in his early college experiment (which forced him to don a mask so no one would gaze upon the horror that was his face).

In Doom's first origin story, after his accident (which left him wearing bandages), he traveled to Tibet (to escape society from looking upon him & to plan his next schemes) where he met the monks that forged his mask.

I'm not sure about this (so someone correct me if I'm wrong) but I think it was John Byrne who came up with...
B. His otherwise handsome face was left with one small scar, but his vanity was so extreme that he had to cover that one imperfection with an iron mask.

I say this because I seem to remember a drawing by Byrne (not part of the comic) that showed Doom removing his mask with only a tiny scar.

I think it was also Byrne who extrapolated on that idea with...
C. Same as "B", but both his ego & impatience caused him to don his iron mask just after it was forged and was still hot, thus scarring his face terribly & permanently (but needlessly).

I definitely remember this scene from Byrne's run on the Fantastic Four.

Nope.. I'm wrong about a couple things...

It was Kirby who drew the picture of Doom with the tiny scar...



It was also Lee & Kirby who depicted Doom putting the mask on while it was still hot (apologies to Tongo)...



Apparently, John Byrne revisited both these ideas in his run on the book...